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   Web Issue 3203 July 19 2008   
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If at first you don’t succeed, try to change Barnett again... and fail
MICHAEL SETTLEFebruary 08 2008

The Whitehall funding formula for Scotland needs to be overhauled soon or Scottish independence might happen via the back door with the English demanding separation, a senior peer and former Treasury minister suggested yesterday.

Lord Barnett, the former Labour Chief Treasury Secretary whose name the formula has borne for 40 years, has over recent years called for a fundamental review of the scheme, which helps determine public expenditure not just in Scotland but also in Wales and Northern Ireland.

Last month, The Herald reported how the peer tried, and failed, to secure a Lords committee to review the formula. Yesterday, he tried and failed again.

"This is not an anti-Scotland proposal," said Lord Barnett. "And it may be proved by a review that Scotland should get this figure of £1500 more per head than England, but the proposed method of doing this surely needs reviewing after 30 years.

"There is an urgency about this because if something isn't seen to be done soon, people in England will start to de-mand separation. That would be disastrous for the UK."

Supporting him, Lord Forsyth of Drumlean, the former Conservative Scottish Secretary, said: "There is a feeling that there is an unfairness in the funding of Scotland relative to the rest of the United Kingdom.

"So long as we continue with a scheme based on increasing the funding according to population, whilst maintaining a base line which reflects previous circumstances, and as long as we have a separatist regime in Scotland which is determined to create conflict north and south of the border, the UK is endangered by our failure to tackle this," he argued.

However, Lord McNally, leader of the Liberal Democrat peers, warned against "opening up a Pandora's box". While he said he had sympathy with Lord Barnett, whom he described as a political ancient mariner "forever wandering the land with the Barnett Formula around his neck", he suspected the creation of an ad hoc committee looking at the funding scheme would stray far and wide into other matters. "I am not sure, on the setting up of such a committee, we should reopen a battle between Lords and Commons," he added.

Lord Brabazon of Tara, chairman of Lords committees, rejected Lord Barnett's proposal, saying such a "highly politicised issue" should be dealt with by the Commons.

However, the UK Government has continued with the mantra that it has "no plans" to review the formula. To do so would be fraught with political difficulties given there would be many winners and losers; a prospect any government would only contemplate just after winning a General Election and not before.

However, of late the clamour for change has intensified. In December, Wendy Alexander, Labour leader at Holyrood, called for a review, suggesting the Treasury block grant should be replaced by new tax powers with assigned revenue from some taxes still controlled by Westminster but complemented by a smaller block grant from London to recognise additional needs in Scotland.

In October, David Cameron, the Conservative leader, dropped his largest hint yet that he believed the time might be right to replace the Barnett Formula.

While a vow of silence on the subject appears to have been taken by Tory front benchers, they are willing to air their views privately. One shadow minister told The Herald: "There is concern Scotland is getting a far better deal through the current financial settlement than the rest of the UK, particularly England. There needs to be a reassessment of it."

Critics often point to how the spending per head in Scotland is £1500 higher than in England. In November, this newspaper researched the figures, which show Scotland's average state spending of £9631 per head is less than London's at £9748 and Northern Ireland's at £10,271.


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Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 3:30am Fri 8 Feb 08
"Critics often point to how the spending per head in Scotland is £1500 higher than in England. In November, this newspaper researched the figures, which show Scotland's average state spending of £9631 per head is less than London's at £9748 and Northern Ireland's at £10,271."

Thank you Herald!
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 4:05am Fri 8 Feb 08
Scotland 8% of the UK and 100% of North Sea Oil and Gas.
Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 6:26am Fri 8 Feb 08
Lord Forsyth of DrumLean:
"and as long as we have a separatist regime in Scotland ,"


A bit strong for a description of a legally elected government of the people as a 'regime' by a 'lord?' or the Realm. By the same token he cannot now complain if we refer to the Westminster 'regime'.

Posted by: jim, Glasgow on 8:21am Fri 8 Feb 08
Remember We have been stuck with a country for hundreds of years and they still cant get used to Scottish notes!Dooooh Sooner the better .
Posted by: Mercutio, Falkirk on 8:26am Fri 8 Feb 08
The use of the word regime is not necessarily pejorative.
Posted by: PaulW, Borders on 9:33am Fri 8 Feb 08
Come on Mercutio! This is Michael Forsyth we are talking about. Of course it is pejorative. Nothing that man says is accidental - he knows what he is saying. He is a master of political dark arts - makes my flesh crawl.

We should refer to the British centralist / nationalist regime from now on maybe. The unionists are totally lacking any respect for a democratically elected Government in Scotland and on that, it is quite unfair that Labour are quite happy to refer to the Welsh Assembly Government, because that is the name they chose, but insist on referring to the "Scottish Executive".
Posted by: PaulW, Borders on 9:35am Fri 8 Feb 08
Oh and well done Herald for pointing out the Oxford Economics figures you reported on. We had a fiscal deficit of just £38 in that year, I recall, and we made the second highest contribution of tax per head after London.

Posted by: Wendy has been, Scotland on 10:27am Fri 8 Feb 08
The English wouldn't dare demand "seperation"! They are too scared to stand on their own, and they need Scottish oil bucks because their economy depends on it!
Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 10:27am Fri 8 Feb 08
I kinda like the term 'Westminster regime' now that the 'r' word has been used by a 'lord?' i.e. someone who wishes tb be viewed as a respected lawmaker. Now presumably it is in Hansard and therefore can not be misconstrued as being pejorative.
Posted by: Saul Tyre, Germany on 10:50am Fri 8 Feb 08
I watched all three parts of Lord of the Rings but I can't for the life of me remember a Lord Brabazon of Tara. Or was he in Space Wars ?
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 11:41am Fri 8 Feb 08
they whole point of the barrnet formula is a bribe to keep scotland, everyone knows that. Removing it is only going to make things easier for independence here.
Posted by: PaulW, Borders on 12:08pm Fri 8 Feb 08
art1000

Fair enough..."Westminste
r regime" it is!
Lets see how they like it.....

In case anyone picks me up over it, I meant to say the deficit was £38 per head in my last post.

Have a good weekend folks.

Cheers.
Posted by: Lachlan, Stirling on 12:25pm Fri 8 Feb 08
Michael Forsyth, a former Tory Secretary of State for Scotland, has a brass neck sticking his nose into the debate on the reform of Barnet?
IF, it wasn't for the intransigence of his party when last in government at the old Scottish Office we would not have arrived at this point in our history.

In 1997, the indigenous Tory Party were not wiped out because of concerns about the Barnet Formula? It was because the indigenous Tories failed to acknowledge that Scotland has totally different requirements in just about every aspect of life from the rest of the United Kingdom.

As a result of the indigenous Tory Party's maladministration, the Scottish Electorate are still highly suspicious of its aims and objectivesy? This party, 11 years later, has only one Westminster M.P., and only thanks to P.R. is it represented at Holyrood. However, it is still treated like a political pariah by the mass of Scots!

Every time Forsyth intervenes in debates like these he only serves to remind the Scots of this disasterous period in office, and the best thing this failed Tory politician can do is to mind his own business, or he will damage his party's future prospects.

He should also remember the brutal fact that Barnet is the price the United Kingdom pays for Scotland's involvement in this unitary state!

Posted by: IanC, W Horsley on 2:01pm Fri 8 Feb 08
Comparing Scotland with London is not comparing like with like. Compare Scotland with England. Compare London with Edinburgh - I don't know what the figures are. Maybe someone has them?
We don't know whether the English wish to leave the Union because the Government has no plans to hold a referendum in England. It won't even ask the people of England if they would like to have their own Parliament with the same powers of the Scottish Parliament beause all the opinion polls show that the answer would be an emphatic yes. Meanwhile the First Minister for England is in effect the MP for Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath. His policy is to divide England into regions, retaining British control from the centre.
While the Barnett formula may be the price the UK pays to keep Scotland in the Union, the price that England is expected to pay is far greater - extinction and balkanisation into regions. The Government tried asking the smallest English 'region' if it wanted a directly elected regional assemly and lost by 78% to 22% so it's proceeding with regionalisation anyway by quango and appointing a Minister to each 'region' to 'represent the government' (not the people!).
The British government now treats England as its last colony - divide and rule, never grant home rule, wipe out all mention of England (except in some sports favoured by the masses), teach Britishness in English schools, avoid flying the flag of St George (even on St George's Day). The supermarkets follow suit labelling English apples as British and sticking the Union flag on them while labelling Scottish salmon as Scottish and sticking the saltire on it and similarly identifying Welsh lamb and sticking the dragon on it.
Not suprisingly more and more people in England support independence for both England and Scotland. Unfortunately, he leader of the other party, David Cameron, has said that he doesn't want to be Prime Minister of England. Can we please have Mr Salmond instead?
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 2:02pm Fri 8 Feb 08
May I just mention that Northern Rock has been given 100 billion pounds of our money.
30 billion seems fairly insignificant by comparison, does it not?
Posted by: Sheila, Canada on 5:15pm Fri 8 Feb 08
Scotland the only country that has an oil industry for 30 years and is poorer now than ever. WAKEN UP over there. And there is a bigger "earner" than oil - WHISKY. 98% of every bottle sold around the world is tax - tax that flows into Westminster.
Posted by: Strathturret, Montrose on 9:58pm Fri 8 Feb 08
Barnett was coined in 1978, that 30 years ago not 40.

Michael Forsyth is a 'unionist running dog.'
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 10:46pm Fri 8 Feb 08
Ian C, no ! You can't have him he's ours!
Find one of your own, there is bound to be one somewhere but for the life of me I can't see where.
Start looking!
Posted by: juankerr, Scotland on 12:19am Sat 9 Feb 08
""This is not an anti-Scotland proposal," " Just like your downplaying of our revenue wasn't meant to keep us strapped to the yoke of unionism and BE GATEFUL FOR IT! (psky north britishers)

Barnett, Go **** yourself!


What is so wrong Scotland being treated liek a grown up and making a decision to stay or go?
This constant gerrymandering is only highlighting how scared they are that the figures we knew were fudged , are as fudged as a gay mans pants on a saturday morning after a visit to CC Blooms!
Posted by: juankerr, Scotland on 12:37am Sat 9 Feb 08
Supporting him, Lord Forsyth of Drumlean, the former Conservative Scottish Secretary, said: "There is a feeling that there is an unfairness in the funding of Scotland relative to the rest of the United Kingdom.


AHHHHHHH the great bastion of the Scottish people, The traitorous "black" forsyth

So Scotland. What do you think will be the outcome? More money for Scotland? Seeing as the English are up in arms about what we currently get out of a rough deal? And the tory who held us back for his own Lordship.

Barnett dson't try to dres sthe revue up as good for Scotland. Your opening reasons allready tell us we'll get shafted to protect albours middle england.

Independence now!
Posted by: The West Awake, Argyll on 11:40am Sat 9 Feb 08
While Lord Heid the ba' and Lord eat the breid and any other of these colonial grandees debate what we should be doing, the Scottish people and their elected GOVERNMENT are busy getting on with the job - shafting them in the process.

Blether on all you like Lord whoever - no bugger$ listening.
Posted by: tcek, South Lanarkshire on 8:00pm Sat 9 Feb 08
It's strange how Scottish oil revenues are never counted into this as per ratio and yes only London and the South east England benefit from our resources Barrnet better start to get to know where to stick his formula before it gets done for him. If Scotland gets £1,500 per head more then London and the South east gets £1,000,500 more per head and Barrnet the fraudster knows that very well. Hes the pits of the earth and will burn in h*ll.
Posted by: scotland only 8% of UK, consumes 11% of social security on 7:12pm Mon 11 Feb 08
What is the sum of public expenditure in edinborough?
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