Spend on public transport, not an M74 extension
I have heard some nonsense about the M74 extension in the past, but my moral compass went haywire when I read in David Leask's article
(December 10) that one of its backers thought that choosing between the half-billion-pound stretch of motorway or the Commonwealth Games was like being forced to choose between one's children.
There are many cases in which short-term economic benefit (however narrowly defined) is the only argument made in favour of a development while social and environmental considerations are cast aside. Typically, we are told to "strike a balance" between these factors, which is code for ignoring anything which ministers think won't boost GDP growth. "Think of the jobs", we are told, as ministers approve the new runway at Heathrow, or capitulate to ultimatums from arrogant billionaires who can't be doing with boring old democratic planning processes.
But in the case of the M74 extension the alleged benefits crumble so quickly under scrutiny that the plaintive cry of "One month to save the M74" cannot be taken seriously. The Herald's own article points out that it will not create jobs, merely move them around the country. It will certainly move more traffic around, but as research shows, this is self-defeating as traffic expands to fill the space available.
Your description of the problems with the Kingston Bridge is a perfect example. Built to cope with 20,000 vehicles daily and now carrying nine times that number, it's a clear demonstration that congestion isn't a function of "not enough road", but one of "too much traffic". Even without the new imperatives of climate change and peak oil, how long can this go on? Relentless increases in road traffic will leave this latest project as worthless as every previous predict-and-provide fallacy.
What SNP ministers - just like their predecessors - are wasting £500m on is five miles of road, hoping it'll shave a few minutes off car journeys, while public transport projects sit on the shelf waiting for political backing, and all this in a city where most citizens don't have access to a car. Even if you do "strike a balance" and ignore the deaths already being caused by climate change, this is a project that barely made sense in the middle of the twentieth century. It has absolutely nothing to offer Glasgow to prepare us for the reality of the 21st.
Patrick Harvie MSP,
Scottish Green Party,
Scottish Parliament, Edinburgh.
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Posted by: The Engineer, The Bus Queue on 5:33am Tue 11 Dec 07
Dearie, dearie me Patrick, once again you fail to see the wood for the trees you are so desperately hugging. Are you totally incapable of grasping the fact that buses run very well on motorways too? Has it escaped your tiny little one cycle track mind that that the main benefit of the M77 was not that it let the parasites of the Mearns speed into their well paid jobs in the city and speed back out at night to avoid paying rates in the same city. No, my blinkered but well meaning pal, the most obvious effect of the M77 was that the citizens of the South side could once more get around their neighborhoods and , with the new bus lanes, it became feasible to catch a bus into the city in less then 20 mins.
You mention the Kingston Bridge. The briefest glimpse at the map and the faintest clue about traveling patterns would lead you to the inescapable conclusion that the M74 extension will [bold]relieve[/bold] pressure on the bridge.
You can huff and puff all you like but the traffic is not going to go away just because you don't like it. The M74C will let traffic move more efficiently, not be belching fumes at inefficient walking pace.
By all means let us have more public transport, bus lanes and [bold]access[/bold] to park and ride schemes. The Crossrail scheme must be brought to fruition as well so that we can make best use of our existing rail infrastructure and we can have joined up thinking and integrated affordable public transport.
Climate change has to be tackled. It [bold]will[/bold] be tackled by engineers with the appropriate technology, not by whining luddites. Your stupid unbending stance will do more to destroy our planet than save it.
The M74 completion has plenty to offer the city and the rest off Central Scotland as well, far more than the ludicrous plan to replace efficient buses with expensive trams in Edinburgh.
And it is a long-term investment, [bold]not[/bold] short term, one that should have been made years ago, along with Crossrail.
Dearie, dearie me Patrick, once again you fail to see the wood for the trees you are so desperately hugging. Are you totally incapable of grasping the fact that buses run very well on motorways too? Has it escaped your tiny little one cycle track mind that that the main benefit of the M77 was not that it let the parasites of the Mearns speed into their well paid jobs in the city and speed back out at night to avoid paying rates in the same city. No, my blinkered but well meaning pal, the most obvious effect of the M77 was that the citizens of the South side could once more get around their neighborhoods and , with the new bus lanes, it became feasible to catch a bus into the city in less then 20 mins.
You mention the Kingston Bridge. The briefest glimpse at the map and the faintest clue about traveling patterns would lead you to the inescapable conclusion that the M74 extension will
relieve pressure on the bridge.
You can huff and puff all you like but the traffic is not going to go away just because you don't like it. The M74C will let traffic move more efficiently, not be belching fumes at inefficient walking pace.
By all means let us have more public transport, bus lanes and
access to park and ride schemes. The Crossrail scheme must be brought to fruition as well so that we can make best use of our existing rail infrastructure and we can have joined up thinking and integrated affordable public transport.
Climate change has to be tackled. It
will be tackled by engineers with the appropriate technology, not by whining luddites. Your stupid unbending stance will do more to destroy our planet than save it.
The M74 completion has plenty to offer the city and the rest off Central Scotland as well, far more than the ludicrous plan to replace efficient buses with expensive trams in Edinburgh.
And it is a long-term investment,
not short term, one that should have been made years ago, along with Crossrail.
Posted by: Jorrox on 10:09am Tue 11 Dec 07
Sometimes I like what Mr Harvie has to say but this illustrates why I would never vote Green.
There's a big hole where a road should be, Patrick!
Sometimes I like what Mr Harvie has to say but this illustrates why I would never vote Green.
There's a big hole where a road should be, Patrick!
Posted by: Andrew Heatlie on 10:22am Tue 11 Dec 07
[quote]The M74 completion has plenty to offer the city and the rest off Central Scotland as well, far more than the ludicrous plan to replace efficient buses with expensive trams in Edinburgh.
And it is a long-term investment, not short term, one that should have been made years ago, along with Crossrail.[/quote]
Sorry, Patrick, I am all for conservation and inclusive social policies (education, imaginative job openings, healthy environments open to all) and [bold]that is why[/bold] [bold] Crossrail and M74C are crucial and urgently needed[/bold] . Without redeveloping transport links, innovative business life within Greater Glasgow, and with it the rest of Scottish life, will falter and decline; future generations would rightly condemn our crass lack of vision. THIS MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN BY DEFAULT; SO MUCH DEPENDS UPON THOSE TWO PUBLIC WORK SCHEMES FINALLY BEING COMPLETED.
The M74 completion has plenty to offer the city and the rest off Central Scotland as well, far more than the ludicrous plan to replace efficient buses with expensive trams in Edinburgh.
And it is a long-term investment, not short term, one that should have been made years ago, along with Crossrail.
Sorry, Patrick, I am all for conservation and inclusive social policies (education, imaginative job openings, healthy environments open to all) and
that is why Crossrail and M74C are crucial and urgently needed . Without redeveloping transport links, innovative business life within Greater Glasgow, and with it the rest of Scottish life, will falter and decline; future generations would rightly condemn our crass lack of vision. THIS MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN BY DEFAULT; SO MUCH DEPENDS UPON THOSE TWO PUBLIC WORK SCHEMES FINALLY BEING COMPLETED.
Posted by: Andrew Heatlie on 10:30am Tue 11 Dec 07
[italic]Technical point for the web staff... maybe just my cackhandedness, but I find inserting quotes less than user-friendly; would be helpful to be able to preview before sending, too. If you can, thanks for reviewing the facility![/italic]
Technical point for the web staff... maybe just my cackhandedness, but I find inserting quotes less than user-friendly; would be helpful to be able to preview before sending, too. If you can, thanks for reviewing the facility! Posted by: Jim, 730-489 on 10:40am Tue 11 Dec 07
The Greens would have far more credibility if they didn't allow their dogma to blind them to the glaringly obvious, that is the need to complete the M74.
To take their arguement to its logical conclusion there will never be another road built in Scotland again.
The Greens would have far more credibility if they didn't allow their dogma to blind them to the glaringly obvious, that is the need to complete the M74.
To take their arguement to its logical conclusion there will never be another road built in Scotland again.
Posted by: Joe Rooney, Glasgow on 10:45am Tue 11 Dec 07
I couldn't care less about the M77 - they should not build it. The peole who suffer are the ones who stay in the area the road goes through. the journey will probably save 5 minutes for the commuters - wow....
Its laughable that one reader syas hes all for conservation and yet want sthis built... Is that term not labeled as double speak from a famous book I once read?
I couldn't care less about the M77 - they should not build it. The peole who suffer are the ones who stay in the area the road goes through. the journey will probably save 5 minutes for the commuters - wow....
Its laughable that one reader syas hes all for conservation and yet want sthis built... Is that term not labeled as double speak from a famous book I once read?
Posted by: Supportthetreehugger
s, Cambuslang on 12:52pm Tue 11 Dec 07
You seem to forget patrick that the companies who move their goods and services in and out of Glasgow and the West of Scotland make the profits to pay the taxes for you to live off of in your Holyrood folly.
The last extension on the M74 to be built has not only brought prosperity and much need jobs to the Cambulsnag area but took traffic off the surrounding roads.
So do me a favour go hug a tree and keep you nose out as this. The M74 extension will bring much needed jobs along the corridor which lesser mortals need to feed their families.
They cannot all get a slot on the holyrood Trough like you
You seem to forget patrick that the companies who move their goods and services in and out of Glasgow and the West of Scotland make the profits to pay the taxes for you to live off of in your Holyrood folly.
The last extension on the M74 to be built has not only brought prosperity and much need jobs to the Cambulsnag area but took traffic off the surrounding roads.
So do me a favour go hug a tree and keep you nose out as this. The M74 extension will bring much needed jobs along the corridor which lesser mortals need to feed their families.
They cannot all get a slot on the holyrood Trough like you
Posted by: David Stevenson, Cambuslang on 12:54pm Tue 11 Dec 07
The M74 was srutinised fully at the public enquiry and the arguments in its favour failed to come up to scratch. It is a waste of money.
The Engineer's faith in his colleagues to put climate change to rest is naive in the extreme. We've had decades of increased efficiency in all sorts of areas but extraction of resources, use of energy and generation of pollution has been on a one-way trajectory. Rational use of resources is much more important than any engineering fix.
The M74 was srutinised fully at the public enquiry and the arguments in its favour failed to come up to scratch. It is a waste of money.
The Engineer's faith in his colleagues to put climate change to rest is naive in the extreme. We've had decades of increased efficiency in all sorts of areas but extraction of resources, use of energy and generation of pollution has been on a one-way trajectory. Rational use of resources is much more important than any engineering fix.
Posted by: Arthur on 3:37pm Tue 11 Dec 07
If it was even economic, some of the Patrick-slagging might make sense. But no, it's not even that. It's another monster road that will be jammed full of cars caught in congestion within months of completion.
Just think of it as the most expensive carpark Scotland will ever have built. If it happens - the Nats are looking for savings in their budget, I understand.
If it was even economic, some of the Patrick-slagging might make sense. But no, it's not even that. It's another monster road that will be jammed full of cars caught in congestion within months of completion.
Just think of it as the most expensive carpark Scotland will ever have built. If it happens - the Nats are looking for savings in their budget, I understand.
Posted by: Kieran, Glasgow on 4:11pm Tue 11 Dec 07
This road is going to look very silly when the price of petrol costs £5 / litre, some time around 2012 .
We are already at the peak of oil production, around that time motor cars will be looking like relics of bygone era.
This road is going to look very silly when the price of petrol costs £5 / litre, some time around 2012 .
We are already at the peak of oil production, around that time motor cars will be looking like relics of bygone era.
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