
Reports of global warming are grossly exaggerated hobgoblins
I will certainly admit to being one of those unconvinced by the claims that we are undergoing catastrophic warming. It is the case, as Paul Shaw says (Letters, November 29), that some glaciers are melting. It is also the case that some are growing and some just sitting there. That there are currently glaciers in the Alps blocking places which, in Roman times, were used as passes, means that even the glacier evidence shows nothing outwith historical experience.
The major recent piece of evidence, which sadly has gone unreported by the British media, is that it has recently been proven that US records purporting to show current extreme warming were wrong. They were distorted by the fact that recording stations, which, a century ago were in open countryside, are now deep inside cities (in one case beside the outlet for a factory's air-conditioning system). The corrected US figures now show 1934 was the warmest year on record and four of the 10 warmest were in the 1930s. To be fair, this error has not been accepted by other countries but since the fullest records were kept by the US, and an even higher proportion of urban records, this is difficult seriously to deny.
Sir David King, a political appointee, is on record as having said that by the end of this century Antarctica will be "the only habitable continent", implying a temperature rise of more than 30 degrees and has subsequently, in what the BBC reported as his "strongest warning yet", said it would be three degrees. He may not be the ultimate authority.
I pointed out in my previous letter that there have been several periods in history when global temperature was significantly warmer than now (middle ages up to 1350, late Roman and pre-5000BC). These were uniformly periods of prosperity, looked back on as golden ages. Mr Shaw did not dispute this.
The late H L Mencken said: "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." I regard the current global warming scare and, indeed, the previous
global ice-age scare of the 1970s and early 1980s, among many others, as being such hobgoblins pushed by a Luddite environmentalist movement trying to justify its existence and governments trying to justify higher taxes and more regulation.
Neil Craig,
200 Woodlands Road, Glasgow.
The letter from Helen McDade contained a lot of good sense about energy conservation and generation. It was a pity that the small paragraph telling of Greenpeace's latest attack on nuclear power - that it needs a subsidy - did not include a reply from someone who knows the facts. Information which is available from many leading industrial nations makes it clear that building new nuclear power stations, although capital intensive (just as wind farms are), is the most economic way to generate electricity. Any doubters should read some of the reports published by the OECD.
G I Crawford,
10 Gailes Park, Bothwell.
Paul Shaw (November 29) says that Sir David King's statement about the weight of evidence refutes Neil Craig's allegation on earlier examples of warming. Weight of evidence has often been wrong in the past. Had that been valid, the Earth would still be flat and the sun would be in orbit around the Earth. These were almost universally-held views at one time. The answers in physics have always been a critical experiment that is unequivocal in its result.
Weight of evidence implies that is the majority feeling, but it also implies that there are minority views, and historically these have been held by such as Galileo and Copernicus. An important question in weighing evidence is whether the majority or the minority is right.
Paul Shaw cites the increasing liberation of methane in Siberia. Ian Stewart's current TV series on geology points out that the increasing temperature is liberating Siberian methane, that is alleged to be many times more potent as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. A short time ago in geological terms, about 7000 years, Siberia was warm enough to support mammoths and their nutritional vegetation. The methane there is much older, several million years, and we must assume some of that was liberated, but the Earth seemed to survive without catastrophe. Only 600 years ago, Greenland was warm enough for farming.
The medieval warm period and the little ice age are well attested and appear in the 1990 IPCC report. The medieval warm period was about 2C above today's temperature, and the little ice age about 2C colder. Even today, with our highly sophisticated measurement laboratories, the mean global temperature, which is what causes much argument, is very difficult to measure. It has to average day and night, tropical and polar, temperatures, and that is far from easy. To that end, Tiros (television infra-red observation satellite) was launched in 1960. That is supposed to measure mean temperature, but the results are somewhat inconclusive, yet it has been reported that there has been very little
temperature change over the past few decades. I am not sure of the physics of Tiros so cannot comment on the validity of its measurements, although they did claim to detect the 1998
el nino peak.
Chris Parton,
40 Bellshill Road, Uddingston.
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Posted by: Joe, Glasgow on 5:43am Mon 3 Dec 07
Regading neil craig comments :
Firstly, it is more than "some glaciers" that are receding; it is a pervasive, sustained, and accelerating global trend. The National Snow and Ice Data Centre (NSIDC) maintains a chart of global glacier mass balance, and for as far back as their data allows us to look, all but a few years have shown a loss in ice volume of subpolar and mountain glaciers. Further, annual losses are increasing.
http://www.realclima
te.org
Regading neil craig comments :
Firstly, it is more than "some glaciers" that are receding; it is a pervasive, sustained, and accelerating global trend. The National Snow and Ice Data Centre (NSIDC) maintains a chart of global glacier mass balance, and for as far back as their data allows us to look, all but a few years have shown a loss in ice volume of subpolar and mountain glaciers. Further, annual losses are increasing.
http://www.realclima
te.org
Posted by: Bill Nisbet, Hervey Bay Qld Australia on 7:45am Mon 3 Dec 07
Pity the low lying Pacific countries which will be engulfed in less than 20 years if melting of the ice-caps continues at the present rate.
Of course there have been periods of global warming in earlier centuries, what is different now is the level of carbon emissions being spewed into the atmosphere by our industrial complexes and motor vehicles.
In my opinion, what detracts from the message of the deniers of global warning is the presence and influence of their high priest, Exxon lobbyist, Dr S Fred Singer.
This was the gentlemen who previously was employed by the tobacco industry to give credence to its contention that nicoitine was not injurious to health.
Pity the low lying Pacific countries which will be engulfed in less than 20 years if melting of the ice-caps continues at the present rate.
Of course there have been periods of global warming in earlier centuries, what is different now is the level of carbon emissions being spewed into the atmosphere by our industrial complexes and motor vehicles.
In my opinion, what detracts from the message of the deniers of global warning is the presence and influence of their high priest, Exxon lobbyist, Dr S Fred Singer.
This was the gentlemen who previously was employed by the tobacco industry to give credence to its contention that nicoitine was not injurious to health.
Posted by: The Laird of Drumboe, Donegal on 9:51am Mon 3 Dec 07
[quote]The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." I regard the current global warming scare and, indeed, the previous global ice-age scare of the 1970s and early 1980s, among many others, as being such hobgoblins pushed by a Luddite environmentalist movement trying to justify its existence and governments trying to justify higher taxes and more regulation.[/quote]
That is the significant part. The recent "terrorism-induced" attempts by Government to limit civil rights are part of the same policy. The threat from "Communism" has gone so there has to be something to keep the population subdued.
Government is a tool used by the rich to suppress the poor, has always been the case and always will be.
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." I regard the current global warming scare and, indeed, the previous global ice-age scare of the 1970s and early 1980s, among many others, as being such hobgoblins pushed by a Luddite environmentalist movement trying to justify its existence and governments trying to justify higher taxes and more regulation.
That is the significant part. The recent "terrorism-induced" attempts by Government to limit civil rights are part of the same policy. The threat from "Communism" has gone so there has to be something to keep the population subdued.
Government is a tool used by the rich to suppress the poor, has always been the case and always will be.
Posted by: Gorge on 11:23am Mon 3 Dec 07
Regading neil craig comments :
I find it incredible that there are still people out there peddling this nonsense. Temperatures are warming and that's a fact; so is that mankind is the main contributor. What a piece of nonsense that governments need to instil this sort of fear to justify it's existence. Fighting global warming will in many ways have to mean to slow down consumption and therefore economic growth. Steady economic growth it what keeps people happy and governments in power. I am disappointed and even astonished that this is being published in the printed Herald. Perhaps it has it's use to retain interest in the publication.
Regading neil craig comments :
I find it incredible that there are still people out there peddling this nonsense. Temperatures are warming and that's a fact; so is that mankind is the main contributor. What a piece of nonsense that governments need to instil this sort of fear to justify it's existence. Fighting global warming will in many ways have to mean to slow down consumption and therefore economic growth. Steady economic growth it what keeps people happy and governments in power. I am disappointed and even astonished that this is being published in the printed Herald. Perhaps it has it's use to retain interest in the publication.
Posted by: Neil 9% growth, glasgow on 11:35am Mon 3 Dec 07
The IPCC, who are after all the high priests of alarmism, predict a sea evel rise of 3mm a year so those countries about to be submerged in 20 years must be no more than 2.5" above sea level. I would be interested in examples.
Joe - Paul put up a link to the wrold's glaciers melting a few days ago & it turned out it was only measuring 27 of them out of thousands - you have not provided a direct link which does not make your assertion more credible.
The IPCC, who are after all the high priests of alarmism, predict a sea evel rise of 3mm a year so those countries about to be submerged in 20 years must be no more than 2.5" above sea level. I would be interested in examples.
Joe - Paul put up a link to the wrold's glaciers melting a few days ago & it turned out it was only measuring 27 of them out of thousands - you have not provided a direct link which does not make your assertion more credible.
Posted by: ayeright, inadeepdeephole on 12:20pm Mon 3 Dec 07
Neil Craig, Woodlands Road, Glasgow
AKA Comic Salesman
AKA http://9percentgrowt
h.blogspot.com/
Climate expert? Or nut bar? You decide.
Neil Craig, Woodlands Road, Glasgow
AKA Comic Salesman
AKA http://9percentgrowt
h.blogspot.com/
Climate expert? Or nut bar? You decide.
Posted by: Neil 9% Growth, glasgow on 12:32pm Mon 3 Dec 07
Presumably ayeright is not unrelated to Norman Fraser, the Maryhill LibDem leader who, yesterday on the Donald Trump thread, put up a post inciting violence against me on the grounds that I believe in freedom of speech, whereas he believes in something less wholesome.
Nutbar or "Liberal" Democrat,? You decide.
Presumably ayeright is not unrelated to Norman Fraser, the Maryhill LibDem leader who, yesterday on the Donald Trump thread, put up a post inciting violence against me on the grounds that I believe in freedom of speech, whereas he believes in something less wholesome.
Nutbar or "Liberal" Democrat,? You decide.
Posted by: Alibi on 12:52pm Mon 3 Dec 07
Millenium Bug.
Posted by: david hill, Bern, Switzerland on 7:34pm Mon 3 Dec 07
I can never understand the thinking of people who do not accept things until it is far too late to do anything about human disasters. Other than global warming the world faces unprecedented problems that will have major implications for our children in this century; something that amazes me with our politicians in particular who have no interest in the world that our children will inherit.
For over the next 20-years the world will begin to see the growing emergence of major indicators that humankind will very likely not exist by the end of this century. Panic will definitely set in. That is the consensus of the World Innovation Foundation that represents the independent voice of the world’s scientific community incorporating over 3,500 of the finest scientific, engineering and technological minds on the planet.
Governments and large global corporations just do not understand the immense ramifications for them and humankind. Indeed, they appear to think that they will be immune to the forces of nature and the sheer unparalleled devastation that is on the horizon for humankind, but where this thinking will be totally misplaced as always. You see, there will be no hiding place even if you are the richest person on earth or the largest corporate. This is the terrible truth of what is on the horizon for humankind. In this respect there is an accelerating state of building up on all fronts that will literally destroy many parts of human existence from nuclear disasters, food crop failures bringing high famine and deaths throughout the world, acute water depletion from which we depend upon for life, the financial collapse of much of the banking system and with it wealth as we know it, oil disruption brought about by a series of events from terrorism to irrational wars, a disintegration of total energy supply to the overdue pandemic that will come as night follows day. The only hope that we have at our disposal for any meaningful response to this growing and terrifying future ordeal that humankind will face is to build the immense global ORE-STEM complex with its more than 1,000 satellite research incubator centres through the world. This mechanism thought out by some of humankind’s foremost minds in the 20th century of harnessing global solutions through total human collaboration is our only answer. The problem is though that we are literally running out of time itself to implement this only solution to preserve human life on this planet, as it will take 25 years to implement. Therefore by 2032 when humankind realises this, it will be too late. Therefore the reasoning that the human experience is now predestined not to survive further than this present century. Presently what one can call the world’s most important maxim.
Dr David Hill
World Innovation Foundation
Bern, Switzerland
I can never understand the thinking of people who do not accept things until it is far too late to do anything about human disasters. Other than global warming the world faces unprecedented problems that will have major implications for our children in this century; something that amazes me with our politicians in particular who have no interest in the world that our children will inherit.
For over the next 20-years the world will begin to see the growing emergence of major indicators that humankind will very likely not exist by the end of this century. Panic will definitely set in. That is the consensus of the World Innovation Foundation that represents the independent voice of the world’s scientific community incorporating over 3,500 of the finest scientific, engineering and technological minds on the planet.
Governments and large global corporations just do not understand the immense ramifications for them and humankind. Indeed, they appear to think that they will be immune to the forces of nature and the sheer unparalleled devastation that is on the horizon for humankind, but where this thinking will be totally misplaced as always. You see, there will be no hiding place even if you are the richest person on earth or the largest corporate. This is the terrible truth of what is on the horizon for humankind. In this respect there is an accelerating state of building up on all fronts that will literally destroy many parts of human existence from nuclear disasters, food crop failures bringing high famine and deaths throughout the world, acute water depletion from which we depend upon for life, the financial collapse of much of the banking system and with it wealth as we know it, oil disruption brought about by a series of events from terrorism to irrational wars, a disintegration of total energy supply to the overdue pandemic that will come as night follows day. The only hope that we have at our disposal for any meaningful response to this growing and terrifying future ordeal that humankind will face is to build the immense global ORE-STEM complex with its more than 1,000 satellite research incubator centres through the world. This mechanism thought out by some of humankind’s foremost minds in the 20th century of harnessing global solutions through total human collaboration is our only answer. The problem is though that we are literally running out of time itself to implement this only solution to preserve human life on this planet, as it will take 25 years to implement. Therefore by 2032 when humankind realises this, it will be too late. Therefore the reasoning that the human experience is now predestined not to survive further than this present century. Presently what one can call the world’s most important maxim.
Dr David Hill
World Innovation Foundation
Bern, Switzerland
Posted by: John Howard on 8:07pm Mon 3 Dec 07
The kind of people who think they can know about the entire planet's climate and climate history are the same type who think they can know what is best for all of mankind, know the origins of the entire universe, know just how much counterfeit paper money central banks need to print, know what God wants and how he feels, and know with great psychiatric precision exactly what is wrong with the brains of anyone who dare to disagree with them.
I once saw a documentary film of a New Guinea tribesman pounding his chest like a silverback gorilla and proclaiming that everyone else in the tribe should just stop talking and listen to him.
They just laughed. Anthropogenic global warming is a foolish notion because the subject is far too large and too complex to fit between the ears of anyone. And there is no such thing as collective knowledge.
The kind of people who think they can know about the entire planet's climate and climate history are the same type who think they can know what is best for all of mankind, know the origins of the entire universe, know just how much counterfeit paper money central banks need to print, know what God wants and how he feels, and know with great psychiatric precision exactly what is wrong with the brains of anyone who dare to disagree with them.
I once saw a documentary film of a New Guinea tribesman pounding his chest like a silverback gorilla and proclaiming that everyone else in the tribe should just stop talking and listen to him.
They just laughed. Anthropogenic global warming is a foolish notion because the subject is far too large and too complex to fit between the ears of anyone. And there is no such thing as collective knowledge.
Posted by: Norman Fraser, Glasgow on 10:34pm Mon 3 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Neil 9% Growth[/bold] wrote:
Presumably ayeright is not unrelated to Norman Fraser, the Maryhill LibDem leader who, yesterday on the Donald Trump thread, put up a post inciting violence against me on the grounds that I believe in freedom of speech, whereas he believes in something less wholesome. Nutbar or "Liberal" Democrat,? You decide.[/quote] No, Neil this is me here and I do not know ayeright.
As usual you misrepresent what I said. The 'freedom of speech' you were espousing was to advocate spitting on councillors in public places if you disagree with them. I do not think that's a valuable part of democracy and indeed seems rather fascist in an SA kind of way. I noted one of your known political positions and posed the question whether you would be so keen on the freedom to assault political opponents if your own views, name and location were known. Whilst you have not formally replied, it appears that you are not so keen on this 'freedom' when it might be applied to yourself.
Neil 9% Growth wrote:
Presumably ayeright is not unrelated to Norman Fraser, the Maryhill LibDem leader who, yesterday on the Donald Trump thread, put up a post inciting violence against me on the grounds that I believe in freedom of speech, whereas he believes in something less wholesome. Nutbar or "Liberal" Democrat,? You decide.
No, Neil this is me here and I do not know ayeright.
As usual you misrepresent what I said. The 'freedom of speech' you were espousing was to advocate spitting on councillors in public places if you disagree with them. I do not think that's a valuable part of democracy and indeed seems rather fascist in an SA kind of way. I noted one of your known political positions and posed the question whether you would be so keen on the freedom to assault political opponents if your own views, name and location were known. Whilst you have not formally replied, it appears that you are not so keen on this 'freedom' when it might be applied to yourself.
Posted by: Paul Shaw, Dunblane on 7:39am Tue 4 Dec 07
It seems Neil's spreading his poison througout the Herald pages Norman. Its time he beamed down from his scifi books and faced the fact that we don't want economic development at any cost.
It seems Neil's spreading his poison througout the Herald pages Norman. Its time he beamed down from his scifi books and faced the fact that we don't want economic development at any cost.
Posted by: Neil 9% Growth, glasgow on 11:19am Tue 4 Dec 07
Ayeright Norman. This is a lie, which would be obvious had the Herald not deleted the entire thread shortly after your incitement to violence.The post you put up specificly incited violence against me on the alleged grounds that I "support Griffin" & the BNP. As you are perfectly well aware the only "support" I have expressed is that I believe they, like you, should have freedom of speech within the law.
Something no true liberal could disagree with.
As regards my remarks about Councillor Storr & her role in removing £1 billion of investment from the Scottish economy - I was actually defending her from a suggestion, by someone without party affiliation, that she should be shot. I did not & do not approve of that , however anecdotally popular, but I do think it perfectly proper for members of the public to express their contempt for Luddite councillors who so casually destroy so many people's life chances.
My remarks about councillor Storr & her role in depriving the people of Aberdeenshire of £1 billion actually defended her, as you know, from a suggestion by a member of the public that she be shot.. Anecdotaly this seems not a particularly uncommon view, with which I disagree. Nonetheless I do think it is proper for her constituents to be able to express their contempt - perhaps you would agree that, not having stood in the election on a platform of destroying jobs the LibDems in Aberdeenshire should resign their seats & seek a fresh mandate for their policy.
quote]Its time he beamed down from his scifi books and faced the fact that we don't want economic development at any cost.[/quote]
That is indeed the point Paul. I do indeed want economic development (though I never said at any cost). The Green Party, the LibDems & those who want to "declare war on fire" by pushing a fraudulent warming scare actively want to end economic growth. This is the major philosophical difference between us & perhaps the major philosophical question in western society - I believe in a future which is greater than the present, you believe in a return to medievalism & ultimatle the caves.. You are perfectly entitled to argue this belief & to stand for election [bold]on that basis[/bold] . You are not entitled to try to achieve it as a hidden effect of the global warming "hobgoblin"..
I note that you were unable to dispute anything I said about alleged warming on the facts & are reduced to accusing me of running a science fiction bookshop. [bold]Something of which I am proud.[/bold]
Ayeright Norman. This is a lie, which would be obvious had the Herald not deleted the entire thread shortly after your incitement to violence.The post you put up specificly incited violence against me on the alleged grounds that I "support Griffin" & the BNP. As you are perfectly well aware the only "support" I have expressed is that I believe they, like you, should have freedom of speech within the law.
Something no true liberal could disagree with.
As regards my remarks about Councillor Storr & her role in removing £1 billion of investment from the Scottish economy - I was actually defending her from a suggestion, by someone without party affiliation, that she should be shot. I did not & do not approve of that , however anecdotally popular, but I do think it perfectly proper for members of the public to express their contempt for Luddite councillors who so casually destroy so many people's life chances.
My remarks about councillor Storr & her role in depriving the people of Aberdeenshire of £1 billion actually defended her, as you know, from a suggestion by a member of the public that she be shot.. Anecdotaly this seems not a particularly uncommon view, with which I disagree. Nonetheless I do think it is proper for her constituents to be able to express their contempt - perhaps you would agree that, not having stood in the election on a platform of destroying jobs the LibDems in Aberdeenshire should resign their seats & seek a fresh mandate for their policy.
quote]Its time he beamed down from his scifi books and faced the fact that we don't want economic development at any cost.
That is indeed the point Paul. I do indeed want economic development (though I never said at any cost). The Green Party, the LibDems & those who want to "declare war on fire" by pushing a fraudulent warming scare actively want to end economic growth. This is the major philosophical difference between us & perhaps the major philosophical question in western society - I believe in a future which is greater than the present, you believe in a return to medievalism & ultimatle the caves.. You are perfectly entitled to argue this belief & to stand for election
on that basis . You are not entitled to try to achieve it as a hidden effect of the global warming "hobgoblin"..
I note that you were unable to dispute anything I said about alleged warming on the facts & are reduced to accusing me of running a science fiction bookshop.
Something of which I am proud. Posted by: Paul Shaw, Dunblane on 11:40am Tue 4 Dec 07
Neither did you deny 'at any cost' in a previous posting when I mentioned the smog in China etc, and in fact you went on to justify your reasoning. Life isn't black and white, theres lots of colours in between. You're arguing that its a choice between rich and poor when in fact this is a false dichotomy. Its possible to get economic growth and look after the environment - but I know you'll never accept that. When I first posted in the Herald I expected to get reasoned debate from individuals with a variety of opinions. Unfortunately its not like that, and many of the comments have been extreme to say the least. I had a look at the postings on the Trump golfcourse, Wendy Alexander, and the Sudanese teddy bear and have been shocked by it all. The few reasoned arguments are heavily outnumbered by extreme amounts of vitriole. Does that not bother you?
Neither did you deny 'at any cost' in a previous posting when I mentioned the smog in China etc, and in fact you went on to justify your reasoning. Life isn't black and white, theres lots of colours in between. You're arguing that its a choice between rich and poor when in fact this is a false dichotomy. Its possible to get economic growth and look after the environment - but I know you'll never accept that. When I first posted in the Herald I expected to get reasoned debate from individuals with a variety of opinions. Unfortunately its not like that, and many of the comments have been extreme to say the least. I had a look at the postings on the Trump golfcourse, Wendy Alexander, and the Sudanese teddy bear and have been shocked by it all. The few reasoned arguments are heavily outnumbered by extreme amounts of vitriole. Does that not bother you?
Posted by: Neil 9% Growth, glasgow on 12:15pm Tue 4 Dec 07
[quote]Its possible to get economic growth and look after the environment - but I know you'll never accept that[/quote] [bold]It is not only possible, it is easiert to have a clean environment if you have growth[/bold] . For 2 reasons:
!) High technology is inherently less polluting per unit of output - precisely because it produces more per unit of output there is less waste ie pollution.
2) Rich countries can afford it. Even here it is the rich constituencies like Hillhead which have big Green votes whereas those actually living in the countryside tend not to. China may have worse smog than it used to but it can now afford clean water & regular rubbish cleaning - a far more dangerous form of pollution & in due course, as they move towards nuclear (or SPS) rather than coal power. Glasgow also, obviously, has far less smog than it used to despite being much wealthier than decades ago.
I agree with you about posters whio prefer vitriol to facts (it was I who pointed out that your last post had not tried to debate on facts) & have always tried, despite temptation, to limit myself to a forthright upholding of facts. It is easier to recognise extreme vitriol in the other side than yourself - I will admit even I may have failed that test occasionally.
Its possible to get economic growth and look after the environment - but I know you'll never accept that
It is not only possible, it is easiert to have a clean environment if you have growth . For 2 reasons:
!) High technology is inherently less polluting per unit of output - precisely because it produces more per unit of output there is less waste ie pollution.
2) Rich countries can afford it. Even here it is the rich constituencies like Hillhead which have big Green votes whereas those actually living in the countryside tend not to. China may have worse smog than it used to but it can now afford clean water & regular rubbish cleaning - a far more dangerous form of pollution & in due course, as they move towards nuclear (or SPS) rather than coal power. Glasgow also, obviously, has far less smog than it used to despite being much wealthier than decades ago.
I agree with you about posters whio prefer vitriol to facts (it was I who pointed out that your last post had not tried to debate on facts) & have always tried, despite temptation, to limit myself to a forthright upholding of facts. It is easier to recognise extreme vitriol in the other side than yourself - I will admit even I may have failed that test occasionally.
Posted by: Paul Shaw, Dunblane on 12:46pm Tue 4 Dec 07
...and poor countries can't, and as you say they want to be rich, so theres going to be more up and coming Chinas unless we share our expertise and help pay for the cost of energy....and in the meantime China intends to build 600 new coal fired ones so the smog's going to get worse before it gets better. Thats where we come back to our basic disagreement - is carbon dioxide the cause of global warming or not. You say no and there isn't any evidence the earth is warming; I say yes and theres plenty of evidence. I give you the evidence and you say its not a representative sample....and so we go on. Never the twain shall meet...so consider this to be my last post....and Neil please don't push your argument to say that my lack of postings means that you have won your arguments. Its just that my head was getting very sore with the brick wall:)
...and poor countries can't, and as you say they want to be rich, so theres going to be more up and coming Chinas unless we share our expertise and help pay for the cost of energy....and in the meantime China intends to build 600 new coal fired ones so the smog's going to get worse before it gets better. Thats where we come back to our basic disagreement - is carbon dioxide the cause of global warming or not. You say no and there isn't any evidence the earth is warming; I say yes and theres plenty of evidence. I give you the evidence and you say its not a representative sample....and so we go on. Never the twain shall meet...so consider this to be my last post....and Neil please don't push your argument to say that my lack of postings means that you have won your arguments. Its just that my head was getting very sore with the brick wall:)
Posted by: Neil 9% Growth, glasgow on 1:51pm Tue 4 Dec 07
[quote]Chinas unless we share our expertise and help pay for the cost of energy....and in the meantime China intends to build 600 new coal fired ones so the smog's going to get worse before it gets better[/quote] Precisely. We should be designing a production line of off the peg nuclear reactors which we could sell to China & the rest of the world. Currently nuclear is half the cost of conventional power (at least in France) but on that sort of production line would be still cheaper.
This could make us richer & the world richer too. It is exactly the sort of hi-tech solution to the world's problems & to ending pollution, which we could easily do if it were not for the Luddites', who call themselves "environmentalists", scare stories.
The opposition to nuclear by almost all "environmentalists" when it is the only currently available technology which can cut CO2 (windmills won't work as even the LudDims privately acknowledge while subsidising it) is itself proof that they don't believe the "hobgoblin" they are threatening us with. If they did they would seriously promote any practical method of cutting CO2 - in fact they only promote the impractical methods which proves their anti-progress agenda.
Chinas unless we share our expertise and help pay for the cost of energy....and in the meantime China intends to build 600 new coal fired ones so the smog's going to get worse before it gets better
Precisely. We should be designing a production line of off the peg nuclear reactors which we could sell to China & the rest of the world. Currently nuclear is half the cost of conventional power (at least in France) but on that sort of production line would be still cheaper.
This could make us richer & the world richer too. It is exactly the sort of hi-tech solution to the world's problems & to ending pollution, which we could easily do if it were not for the Luddites', who call themselves "environmentalists", scare stories.
The opposition to nuclear by almost all "environmentalists" when it is the only currently available technology which can cut CO2 (windmills won't work as even the LudDims privately acknowledge while subsidising it) is itself proof that they don't believe the "hobgoblin" they are threatening us with. If they did they would seriously promote any practical method of cutting CO2 - in fact they only promote the impractical methods which proves their anti-progress agenda.
Posted by: Norman Fraser, Glasgow on 7:00pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Neil, your post at 11.19 above is just evasion. What you are saying now bears little resemblance to what you said on the Trump thread. As to defending councillor Storr, someone who in the past went a considerable way out of her way to help you, in a recent posting on your blog you call her [italic]'a wholly corrupt & dishonest political wheel horse'.[/italic] This is a strange defense. Anyone who can be bothered can check this out in your 29th December posting at http://a-place-to-st
and.blogspot.com/ . Whilst there they can verify for themselves that smears and villification are in fact a large part of your stock in trade. Not occasional lapses but regular practice.
Neil, your post at 11.19 above is just evasion. What you are saying now bears little resemblance to what you said on the Trump thread. As to defending councillor Storr, someone who in the past went a considerable way out of her way to help you, in a recent posting on your blog you call her
'a wholly corrupt & dishonest political wheel horse'. This is a strange defense. Anyone who can be bothered can check this out in your 29th December posting at http://a-place-to-st
and.blogspot.com/ . Whilst there they can verify for themselves that smears and villification are in fact a large part of your stock in trade. Not occasional lapses but regular practice.
Posted by: Z. Bishrey, Peterborough on 8:46am Wed 5 Dec 07
Global warming, or global hot air?
The major contributor to global warming is water vapour which is responsible for 95% of the “greenhouse effect”. Only 0.001% of this total is due to human activity, the rest is dependent on the heat output from the sun, on the earth’s orbit and inclination to the ecliptic, on the earth’s tectonic and volcanic activities, etc.
The contribution of carbon dioxide to the “greenhouse” effect is 3.618%; Out of which the human contribution is 0.117%
Methane contributes 0.36%; Out of which the human contribution is 0.066%
Nitrous oxide contributes 0.95%; Out of which the human contribution is 0.047%
Other “greenhouse” gases (CFCs etc.) contribute 0.072%; Out of which the human contribution is 0.047%
The sum total of all human contributions to the “greenhouse” effect, therefore, is 0.278%, whereas the natural phenomena, upon which humans have no influence whatsoever, contribute 99.722%
The mean global temperatures have been going up and down like a yoyo for thousands of millions of years before this wonder of creation, the human being, used fossil fuels to fire his factories and propel his 4x4s. Let us stop kidding ourselves that we have any influence on the planet (apart from killing each other and stealing each other’s milk & honey & natural resources).
Z. Bishrey
Peterborough
Global warming, or global hot air?
The major contributor to global warming is water vapour which is responsible for 95% of the “greenhouse effect”. Only 0.001% of this total is due to human activity, the rest is dependent on the heat output from the sun, on the earth’s orbit and inclination to the ecliptic, on the earth’s tectonic and volcanic activities, etc.
The contribution of carbon dioxide to the “greenhouse” effect is 3.618%; Out of which the human contribution is 0.117%
Methane contributes 0.36%; Out of which the human contribution is 0.066%
Nitrous oxide contributes 0.95%; Out of which the human contribution is 0.047%
Other “greenhouse” gases (CFCs etc.) contribute 0.072%; Out of which the human contribution is 0.047%
The sum total of all human contributions to the “greenhouse” effect, therefore, is 0.278%, whereas the natural phenomena, upon which humans have no influence whatsoever, contribute 99.722%
The mean global temperatures have been going up and down like a yoyo for thousands of millions of years before this wonder of creation, the human being, used fossil fuels to fire his factories and propel his 4x4s. Let us stop kidding ourselves that we have any influence on the planet (apart from killing each other and stealing each other’s milk & honey & natural resources).
Z. Bishrey
Peterborough
Posted by: Neil 9% Growth, glasgow on 11:52am Wed 5 Dec 07
Z thank you for that. I wish the entire debate could be conducted with such respect for facts & figures rather than of shouting & vitriol.
Norman what you mentioned above was to accuse me of wishing violence against CouncillorStorr & on that point I correctly stated that I had specificly defended her from another poster's accusation that she should be shot.
This is in no way incompatible with the charge you have chosen to bring up that she is 'a wholly corrupt & dishonest political wheel horse'". which I stand by.
The sequence of events, which you do not dispute, engaged in by the LibDem Party Executive, which you instigated, described in the blog article leave no other interpretation possible.
Perhaps Ms Storr will thank you for bringing this up.
Z thank you for that. I wish the entire debate could be conducted with such respect for facts & figures rather than of shouting & vitriol.
Norman what you mentioned above was to accuse me of wishing violence against CouncillorStorr & on that point I correctly stated that I had specificly defended her from another poster's accusation that she should be shot.
This is in no way incompatible with the charge you have chosen to bring up that she is 'a wholly corrupt & dishonest political wheel horse'". which I stand by.
The sequence of events, which you do not dispute, engaged in by the LibDem Party Executive, which you instigated, described in the blog article leave no other interpretation possible.
Perhaps Ms Storr will thank you for bringing this up.
Posted by: Neil 9% Growth, glasgow on 3:43pm Wed 5 Dec 07
For anybody not wanting the long version -
Norman put up a motion saying I should be expelled from the party for saying that free enterprise works & that windmills won't save us when we lose 50% of our electricity. Inter alia it included an allegation that a motion which he knew Councillor Storr had drafted but implied I had, was incompetently done.
And she voted for it.
And so did the entire Lib Dem party executive, including Robert Brown MSP who was the one who asked me to submit the motion.
For anybody not wanting the long version -
Norman put up a motion saying I should be expelled from the party for saying that free enterprise works & that windmills won't save us when we lose 50% of our electricity. Inter alia it included an allegation that a motion which he knew Councillor Storr had drafted but implied I had, was incompetently done.
And she voted for it.
And so did the entire Lib Dem party executive, including Robert Brown MSP who was the one who asked me to submit the motion.
Posted by: Norman Fraser, Glasgow on 4:55pm Thu 6 Dec 07
Neil, I think you have had a reality bypass. On the Trump thread you wrote that shooting councillors was a little extreme but that spitting on them in a named supermarket chain was probably an acceptable substitute. You wrote that, I did not invent it.
Regarding your expulsion, you know fine well that your failed motions to conference had little or nothing to do with the matter. Firstly, in a series of articles on your blog you had attacked senior Party figures in highly personal and inflammatory terms. Secondly, you wrote a series of blog articles on a number of subjects in a manner which the Party believed brought it into disrepute by association. Your blog at that time regularly carried notification of your Party affiliation. The [italic]piece de resistance [/italic] was your posting of 3 April 2005, days after the death of Pope John Paul II, entitled [quote]Hail, Hail the Pope's in Hell: Burn in Hell You Obscene, Mass Murdering Nazi Filth[/quote] ( you have since removed this material from 'A Place to Stand' but please do not deny its existence because I have kept a copy of the HTML file). Finally, the manner in which you conducted your defence sealed you fate. You were made aware that the expulsion procedure is confidential yet you chose to release confidential information on your blog and on an emailing list that included senior figures of other political parties. Even the tone of your submission to the Executive was offensive. By the time the Executive came to vote on your expulsion you had alienated any potential supporters and the motion was carried with only one abstention and no votes against.
Neil, I think you have had a reality bypass. On the Trump thread you wrote that shooting councillors was a little extreme but that spitting on them in a named supermarket chain was probably an acceptable substitute. You wrote that, I did not invent it.
Regarding your expulsion, you know fine well that your failed motions to conference had little or nothing to do with the matter. Firstly, in a series of articles on your blog you had attacked senior Party figures in highly personal and inflammatory terms. Secondly, you wrote a series of blog articles on a number of subjects in a manner which the Party believed brought it into disrepute by association. Your blog at that time regularly carried notification of your Party affiliation. The
piece de resistance was your posting of 3 April 2005, days after the death of Pope John Paul II, entitled
Hail, Hail the Pope's in Hell: Burn in Hell You Obscene, Mass Murdering Nazi Filth
( you have since removed this material from 'A Place to Stand' but please do not deny its existence because I have kept a copy of the HTML file). Finally, the manner in which you conducted your defence sealed you fate. You were made aware that the expulsion procedure is confidential yet you chose to release confidential information on your blog and on an emailing list that included senior figures of other political parties. Even the tone of your submission to the Executive was offensive. By the time the Executive came to vote on your expulsion you had alienated any potential supporters and the motion was carried with only one abstention and no votes against.
Posted by: Neil (% Growth, glasgow on 5:48pm Fri 7 Dec 07
I certainly do think it is a preferable option.
As regards my expulsion from the LIB DEMS
1) You wrote the expulsion document & you chose to bring in my proposal that we go for economic growth by cutting corporation tax etc on the grounds that discussing anything like that was "too right wing" (your words) to even be discussed. The party leaders clearly concurred.
You do not dispute claiming the motions were badly drafted, that this was untrue, that they were drafted by Councillor Storr & that she nonetheless supported your lie. That being the case i do not see that the remark about her corruption you reprinted can be disputed.
Nor did you dispute that Robert Brown MSP, a member of the Executive, had, for whatever reason, previously asked me to put that motion forward again (for a 5th time).
Do you now dispute this?
2) I did not attack "senior party figures" in personal terms. I did criticise Paddy Ashdown (at the time ruler of Bosnia rather than one or even several party figures) for having said, under oath, that he had seen massacres in villages, while standing on the border of Kosovo which it was proven could not be seen form there. I also criticsed him regarding membersof his administration being SUPPORTED in keeping child sex slaves.. Perjury & child rape are not merely personal matters.
Neither you nor anybody else has disputed the factual accuracy of what I said. Do you do so now?
3) His Holiness gave a $2 billion interest free 10 year loan (the accountancy term for this is "hiddne gift") to Franjo Tudjman the Croatian Nazi leader at a time when he had said he was committed to genocide to spread the Catholic Faith. Neither you nor anybody else have disputed this. Tudjman used the money to engage in the genocide of probably hundreds of thousands of people.
That being the case do you dispute that Catholic theology requires that the current location of His Holiness' soul is indeed Hell?
The LibDems have decided that supporting suicide bombers is a matter not for expulsion but elevation to the Lords. Nicol Stephen has publicly stated that forJews to carry out somewhat less bombing than the LDs supported makes should mean the Jews, but not the LibDems be brought to trial. These have not led to expulsion so clearly double standards are being used.
4) It is a deliberate lie to say that I published the "evidence" you concocted. In fact not doing so hampered my defence.
I did make public my own defence.. Even then I only went public afyer I was informed by the Party Executive that, though I was permited to defend myself against your charges, I was not allowed to know exactly what they were.
The party executive initially voted unanimously to expel me without being allowed speak to them or even to see your charges against me.
Do you dispute that that is the fact?
Purely because I went public the party were forced to reverse themselves & let me see the "evidence" which you had produced. I was able to prove that all of it was either lies or what I said was very firmly in line with mainstrem traditional liberal principles, or both .
I think the suggestion that they ever had the slightest intention of treating me according to the evidence.is clearly insupportable. My submision to the Executive was, nonetheless, not "offensive" - I admit it was honest. & forthright. Any "offensiveness" was on your side.
I was expelled quite specificly for having had letters published in this & other papers which were not only factual but entiely compatible with traditional liberal values & indeed not incompatible with current policy. This could not have caused any problems if the party was still remotely entitled to call itself a "Liberal" party. You know this to be true & you know that entryism has allowed the party to be taken over by various sorts of Luddites, nanny statists & eco-fascists & assorted fringe nutters who who are not in any way liberal. If that were not so Scotland would not have lost fat more than the £1 billion Mr Trump wished to invest.
Anyone can check this by looking at the Feb 2006 arcihve on
http://a-place-to-st
and.blogspot.com/
I certainly do think it is a preferable option.
As regards my expulsion from the LIB DEMS
1) You wrote the expulsion document & you chose to bring in my proposal that we go for economic growth by cutting corporation tax etc on the grounds that discussing anything like that was "too right wing" (your words) to even be discussed. The party leaders clearly concurred.
You do not dispute claiming the motions were badly drafted, that this was untrue, that they were drafted by Councillor Storr & that she nonetheless supported your lie. That being the case i do not see that the remark about her corruption you reprinted can be disputed.
Nor did you dispute that Robert Brown MSP, a member of the Executive, had, for whatever reason, previously asked me to put that motion forward again (for a 5th time).
Do you now dispute this?
2) I did not attack "senior party figures" in personal terms. I did criticise Paddy Ashdown (at the time ruler of Bosnia rather than one or even several party figures) for having said, under oath, that he had seen massacres in villages, while standing on the border of Kosovo which it was proven could not be seen form there. I also criticsed him regarding membersof his administration being SUPPORTED in keeping child sex slaves.. Perjury & child rape are not merely personal matters.
Neither you nor anybody else has disputed the factual accuracy of what I said. Do you do so now?
3) His Holiness gave a $2 billion interest free 10 year loan (the accountancy term for this is "hiddne gift") to Franjo Tudjman the Croatian Nazi leader at a time when he had said he was committed to genocide to spread the Catholic Faith. Neither you nor anybody else have disputed this. Tudjman used the money to engage in the genocide of probably hundreds of thousands of people.
That being the case do you dispute that Catholic theology requires that the current location of His Holiness' soul is indeed Hell?
The LibDems have decided that supporting suicide bombers is a matter not for expulsion but elevation to the Lords. Nicol Stephen has publicly stated that forJews to carry out somewhat less bombing than the LDs supported makes should mean the Jews, but not the LibDems be brought to trial. These have not led to expulsion so clearly double standards are being used.
4) It is a deliberate lie to say that I published the "evidence" you concocted. In fact not doing so hampered my defence.
I did make public my own defence.. Even then I only went public afyer I was informed by the Party Executive that, though I was permited to defend myself against your charges, I was not allowed to know exactly what they were.
The party executive initially voted unanimously to expel me without being allowed speak to them or even to see your charges against me.
Do you dispute that that is the fact?
Purely because I went public the party were forced to reverse themselves & let me see the "evidence" which you had produced. I was able to prove that all of it was either lies or what I said was very firmly in line with mainstrem traditional liberal principles, or both .
I think the suggestion that they ever had the slightest intention of treating me according to the evidence.is clearly insupportable. My submision to the Executive was, nonetheless, not "offensive" - I admit it was honest. & forthright. Any "offensiveness" was on your side.
I was expelled quite specificly for having had letters published in this & other papers which were not only factual but entiely compatible with traditional liberal values & indeed not incompatible with current policy. This could not have caused any problems if the party was still remotely entitled to call itself a "Liberal" party. You know this to be true & you know that entryism has allowed the party to be taken over by various sorts of Luddites, nanny statists & eco-fascists & assorted fringe nutters who who are not in any way liberal. If that were not so Scotland would not have lost fat more than the £1 billion Mr Trump wished to invest.
Anyone can check this by looking at the Feb 2006 arcihve on
http://a-place-to-st
and.blogspot.com/
Posted by: Norman Fraser, Glasgow on 8:17pm Sun 9 Dec 07
I do not agree with your version of your expulsion but I have no intention of rebutting it in detail. At the time you had the option to appeal your expulsion which, so far as I am aware, you did not take.
I note that you have recently taken to referring to yourself in emails to Party HQ as[italic] 'the only true liberal in the Party'[/italic] . I think that that statement, together with your post above clearly indicates to any third party why you were expelled.
I do not agree with your version of your expulsion but I have no intention of rebutting it in detail. At the time you had the option to appeal your expulsion which, so far as I am aware, you did not take.
I note that you have recently taken to referring to yourself in emails to Party HQ as
'the only true liberal in the Party' . I think that that statement, together with your post above clearly indicates to any third party why you were expelled.
Posted by: Neil 9% Growth, glasgow on 11:55am Tue 11 Dec 07
So do I.
Indeed that is what i said.in my defence statement:
"I believe that it would be in the interests of the party, as well as the country, to commit itself to traditional liberal policies & particularly to achieving economic success - time after time it is shown that the electorate want wealth, whereas Ludditism, bicycling, windmills & banning things are not popular Even if it is decided that such matters are "incompatible with membership of the party" this would only prove that liberalism & membership of the Lib Dems are incompatible. I must leave that decision in your hands"
The party has made the ir decision & have indeed decided that holding classic liberal views is "incompatible" with membership & cannot now deny this.
So do I.
Indeed that is what i said.in my defence statement:
"I believe that it would be in the interests of the party, as well as the country, to commit itself to traditional liberal policies & particularly to achieving economic success - time after time it is shown that the electorate want wealth, whereas Ludditism, bicycling, windmills & banning things are not popular Even if it is decided that such matters are "incompatible with membership of the party" this would only prove that liberalism & membership of the Lib Dems are incompatible. I must leave that decision in your hands"
The party has made the ir decision & have indeed decided that holding classic liberal views is "incompatible" with membership & cannot now deny this.
Posted by: Johnnyb, Amarillo, Tx on 7:36pm Fri 14 Dec 07
Calling the anti-nuke folks "Luddites" is absolutely appropriate. If they could throw out one realistic option then the story might be different, but so far all of the "Solutions" that I have heard coming out of the anti-nuke crowd and environmental groups are based on ignorance and fantasy.
Global Warming is most likely a total farce, but I believe that we should reduce our use of coal and oil for different reasons, and the only way to realistically produce enough energy for the human race to survive at our current population density is nuclear energy. Solar and wind will never be able to provide a base load for power grids and they are not well suited for hydrogen production. Nuclear Plants are very well suited for hydrogen which offers the best hope for meeting our energy needs.
Wind and solar will have their place in the future, but their role will always be secondary like providing for a portion of the base load, when its available, so a nuke plant can turn its excess capacity towards hydrogen production. If we really want to get off oil, which I think that we should for economic reasons, then Nuclear Power must play a central role. It is the best option for our environmental and economic health in the long run, and anyone who does not understand this fact is a Luddite who is more concerned with impeding progress while pandering to their political base, rather than addressing the real issues facing our fossil fuel based economy.
Calling the anti-nuke folks "Luddites" is absolutely appropriate. If they could throw out one realistic option then the story might be different, but so far all of the "Solutions" that I have heard coming out of the anti-nuke crowd and environmental groups are based on ignorance and fantasy.
Global Warming is most likely a total farce, but I believe that we should reduce our use of coal and oil for different reasons, and the only way to realistically produce enough energy for the human race to survive at our current population density is nuclear energy. Solar and wind will never be able to provide a base load for power grids and they are not well suited for hydrogen production. Nuclear Plants are very well suited for hydrogen which offers the best hope for meeting our energy needs.
Wind and solar will have their place in the future, but their role will always be secondary like providing for a portion of the base load, when its available, so a nuke plant can turn its excess capacity towards hydrogen production. If we really want to get off oil, which I think that we should for economic reasons, then Nuclear Power must play a central role. It is the best option for our environmental and economic health in the long run, and anyone who does not understand this fact is a Luddite who is more concerned with impeding progress while pandering to their political base, rather than addressing the real issues facing our fossil fuel based economy.
Posted by: Bishrey, Peterborough on 7:51am Mon 11 Feb 08
It seems that the problem of global population increase has been largely ignored. This is not so much a problem for its effect on global warming but because of its impact on more immediate and more urgent matters. There are far too many of our species on this planet, increasing exponentially by some 100 million souls each year at the current rate (3 extra mouths to feed in every passing second).
The concern is not so much about the effect of human and other animals on global warming (which is negligible), but on the desperate competition which must follow shortages of food, water, and other resources, which is an entirely different matter.
More people means more houses, schools, roads, car-parks, factories, supermarkets, churches, and other concreted areas which dump rain water into rivers rapidly (causing floods) rather than let the water sink into the ground slowly. In England, on average, each house dumps about 35 cubic meters of rain water into our rivers. I will let other contributors do the simple calculation of the effect on flooding of another 10 million increase in British population and another 3 million extra houses over the next 10 years.
As for energy production, an increase in population also means an increase in the demand on energy. However, it is an easy matter to demand (ad nauseam) shutting down fossil fuel generators and replacing them with “renewable” energy sources and house insulation but, unfortunately, the gross majority of those who are loudest in these demands are also those who ignore the simple arithmetic of their demands.
Insulating every home, factory, hotel, school, office, hospital, etc., to the point where no heat whatsoever can escape and heating these premises becomes unnecessary, will not reduce the demand on energy for cookers, TVs, washing machines, office equipment, lighting, construction machinery, etc.; nor will it remove the need for the use of a single car, truck, or train for transport, emergencies, security, or leisure; and if all these modes of transport shall run on hydrogen (the latest “simple” solution), then this element must be produced in huge quantities (using energy) and must be transported to the end-user before it can be used.
Some environmentalists reject out of hand the use of nuclear energy on the grounds of “Chernobyl” (the most lame of all arguments); others object to the use of major hydraulic projects, e.g., the Severn Barrage (which has been reviewed regularly over the last 110 years!) on the grounds of their negative impact on the lifestyle of newts, beetles, badgers & other wildlife, using the “simple” solution, that our energy needs could be satisfied by solar panels without bothering to calculate the acreage of solar panels required to replace a single power station.
The other “simple” solution is using wind turbines. However, although the tides needed to power the Severn Barrage scheme are guaranteed, the wind is not. As has been mentioned in another posting, wind turbines can only be safely regarded as a desirable extra, no more than that. But even if energetic wind for the turbines can be made by magic or prayer to blow 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in order to satisfy the electrical energy needs in Britain, 225,000 wind turbines would be required.
Apart from the fact that electrical generation by wind turbines costs twice as much as nuclear power, if only 40% (90,000) of these wind turbines are installed on land in Britain (with a surface area of 80,823 square miles), then more than one turbine would be required for every square mile; up hill, down dale, in cities, on lakes, and all over the fens, farms, national parks, race-courses, and baronial estates. If the other 60% (135,000) of these wind turbines are installed in the North Sea (with a surface area of 222,000 square miles) then one turbine would have to be erected on every 1.6 square miles, turning that body of water into a concrete forest, and the sea-floor covered in a spaghetti of electrical cables; assuming, of course, that our neighbours on the other side of the pond will not object to this vandalism.
It seems that the problem of global population increase has been largely ignored. This is not so much a problem for its effect on global warming but because of its impact on more immediate and more urgent matters. There are far too many of our species on this planet, increasing exponentially by some 100 million souls each year at the current rate (3 extra mouths to feed in every passing second).
The concern is not so much about the effect of human and other animals on global warming (which is negligible), but on the desperate competition which must follow shortages of food, water, and other resources, which is an entirely different matter.
More people means more houses, schools, roads, car-parks, factories, supermarkets, churches, and other concreted areas which dump rain water into rivers rapidly (causing floods) rather than let the water sink into the ground slowly. In England, on average, each house dumps about 35 cubic meters of rain water into our rivers. I will let other contributors do the simple calculation of the effect on flooding of another 10 million increase in British population and another 3 million extra houses over the next 10 years.
As for energy production, an increase in population also means an increase in the demand on energy. However, it is an easy matter to demand (ad nauseam) shutting down fossil fuel generators and replacing them with “renewable” energy sources and house insulation but, unfortunately, the gross majority of those who are loudest in these demands are also those who ignore the simple arithmetic of their demands.
Insulating every home, factory, hotel, school, office, hospital, etc., to the point where no heat whatsoever can escape and heating these premises becomes unnecessary, will not reduce the demand on energy for cookers, TVs, washing machines, office equipment, lighting, construction machinery, etc.; nor will it remove the need for the use of a single car, truck, or train for transport, emergencies, security, or leisure; and if all these modes of transport shall run on hydrogen (the latest “simple” solution), then this element must be produced in huge quantities (using energy) and must be transported to the end-user before it can be used.
Some environmentalists reject out of hand the use of nuclear energy on the grounds of “Chernobyl” (the most lame of all arguments); others object to the use of major hydraulic projects, e.g., the Severn Barrage (which has been reviewed regularly over the last 110 years!) on the grounds of their negative impact on the lifestyle of newts, beetles, badgers & other wildlife, using the “simple” solution, that our energy needs could be satisfied by solar panels without bothering to calculate the acreage of solar panels required to replace a single power station.
The other “simple” solution is using wind turbines. However, although the tides needed to power the Severn Barrage scheme are guaranteed, the wind is not. As has been mentioned in another posting, wind turbines can only be safely regarded as a desirable extra, no more than that. But even if energetic wind for the turbines can be made by magic or prayer to blow 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in order to satisfy the electrical energy needs in Britain, 225,000 wind turbines would be required.
Apart from the fact that electrical generation by wind turbines costs twice as much as nuclear power, if only 40% (90,000) of these wind turbines are installed on land in Britain (with a surface area of 80,823 square miles), then more than one turbine would be required for every square mile; up hill, down dale, in cities, on lakes, and all over the fens, farms, national parks, race-courses, and baronial estates. If the other 60% (135,000) of these wind turbines are installed in the North Sea (with a surface area of 222,000 square miles) then one turbine would have to be erected on every 1.6 square miles, turning that body of water into a concrete forest, and the sea-floor covered in a spaghetti of electrical cables; assuming, of course, that our neighbours on the other side of the pond will not object to this vandalism.
