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A defining moment of Labour’s disintegration
IAIN MacWHIRTERMay 12 2008

There are times when political events read like a modern history exam question: Discuss the circumstances that led to the rise of Scottish independence, with particular reference to the SNP's narrow victory in the 2007 election; the collapse of Gordon Brown's authority after the aborted UK General Election; and the collapse of Wendy Alexander's call for a referendum on independence. The failed Wendyrendum is clearly a defining moment in Labour's disintegration in Scotland.

By proposing a referendum, and then being forced by Gordon Brown to retract it, Wendy Alexander handed the SNP a double bonus. The idea of a referendum has been legitimised, and Labour in Scotland's subservience to its London masters has been confirmed. Talk about an own goal - this like holding a penalty shoot out in your own box.

Most people in Scotland will now think a referendum is inevitable if even Labour is talking about it. And by trying to defy Gordon Brown's authority, and then being firmly put in her place, Alexander has offered herself as a living metaphor of Scotland's place in the Union. Some wits have even suggested that Wendy Alexander is a closet nationalist who has been working for the independence cause all along. Salmond couldn't possibly have expected better of his opposition leader if he had appointed her himself. Of course, she isn't an SNP mole; but in one sense Wendy - who is a small "n" nationalist like Donald Dewar - may have unconsciously been following the logic of Scottish independence.

Labour's situation is dire in Scotland, and something drastic had to be done. Perhaps not this drastic, but certainly things couldn't just continue as before, with Salmond being allowed to make the political weather in Scotland and making independence respectable. Labour had to strike out on its own, become more assertively Scottish, more autonomous, more detached from London.

This was clearly what she was trying to do in standing up to Brown, and it is actually not so different to what the Welsh Labour leader, Rhodri Morgan, has been doing in Wales. In Cardiff, Labour has actually entered a coalition with the nationalist Plaid Cymru, Wendy could reasonably argue that if Morgan can get into bed with the nationalists, why shouldn't she call a vote on independence which Labour would almost certainly win?

However, she came up against the brick wall of her own lack of constitutional authority. Alexander is only the leader of the Labour group of MSPs in Holyrood, she is not the leader of the party in Scotland, Gordon Brown is. Consequently, she was always liable to be overruled by him after he came under pressure from Westminster MPs. Brown couldn't just say it was "a matter for the Scottish leader to decide" because it isn't - he is her boss and collectively responsible for her actions.

But to return to our original exam question: has independence really been brought any closer as a result of the chaos of the last ten days? Or are we simply back to the status quo ante, with no majority in the Scottish Parliament for the SNP's referendum bill? Labour has now resiled on its commitment to "support any referendum on independence" as the chairman of the Holyrood Labour Group, Duncan McNeil, put it last week. We are now told that the Wendyrendum was just a bluff, a tease, and that Labour always intended to vote against the SNP's bill for a referendum in 2010. The other parties won't change their minds, which means that the numbers still don't stack up for Alex Salmond.

Well, numerically that may be the case, but politically I think the climate has changed. It is the decomposition of Scotland's traditional party of choice, Labour, that is what we have to watch. The way things are going, the SNP may be about to welcome some new recruits. After all, what is there to stay for? Labour is a laughing stock in Holyrood, Gordon Brown is discredited and on his way out, the Tories are on their way in at Westminster. The only party, north or south, which appears to be interested in promoting recognisably Labour policies on health, council housing, education, Trident etc, is the Scottish National Party.

Many Labour Party people in Scotland feel a sense of bewildered betrayal at Gordon Brown following the 10p tax debacle. Far from making a decisive break with Blairism, he seems to be drifting even further to the right, taking his policy agenda direct from Daily Mail editorials. Building a social democratic Scottish National Party may now be the best, perhaps the only way, of ensuring that the soul of the old Scottish Labour Party lives on.

What Alex Salmond needs to do now to hasten Labour's disintegration is to show that he is sincere in seeking a social democratic Scotland, and that he is no longer a separatist. The SNP have shown that they can implement Labour policies; now they have to show that independence does not mean cutting Scotland off from the world. Salmond realises this, of course, which is why he has been so keen to emphasise his willingness to co-operate with London on common issues, such as terrorism, foot and mouth, the environment, the Grangemouth dispute and joint ministerial committees.

Salmond intends to further domesticate the idea of independence by emphasising the enduring "social union" with England, through common institutions such as the monarchy, the NHS, even the armed forces. (At the Edinburgh military Tattoo, Salmond took the salute from the Queen's regiments and led the crowd in singing "God Save the Queen"). The SNP is in the process of redefining independence as a new kind of union - a coming together of the various nations that make up the British Isles, including possibly the Republic of Ireland.

If the SNP can demonstrate that independence is not some leap in the dark, but a natural progression from Holyrood, and that Scotland will still share a common destiny with the other nations of the UK, then he will have gone a long way to counter the charge of separatism.

Following Wendy's double U-turn, Alex Salmond probably will not be able to get a referendum in 2010. But he has probably already won the 2011 Holyrood election, given Labour's disarray. By then, the process of "normalising" independence might be well advanced. The Calman Commission will have proposed greater powers for Holyrood which will further legitimise the idea of extending devolution. And with a Tory government in Westminster possibly curbing the voting rights of Scottish MPs, the scene may be set for a replay of the 1997 devolution referendum some time after 2012. And the rest, as they say, is history.


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Posted by: brahann, Fife on 9:26pm Sun 11 May 08
Isn't it incredible how the BBC has omitted the Politics Scotland program from the BBC Iplayer. All the other regional shows are up!. I always assumed that we lived in a democracy with a free press and the BBC was world renowned for being impartial. It appears I am wrong.

There is open censorship in the BBC off politics in Scotland even to the point of not a mention on have I got news for you.

What has happened to freedom of speech and freedom of information?
Posted by: Ramsay, Hamburg on 9:43pm Sun 11 May 08
Good point, brahann. Look at the BBC's latest Brian Taylor blog. You will perceive that not only has he been relatively kind in his assessment of Wendy Alexander's independence-referen
dum caper but comments which his piece has attracted are encountering a censorship barrier. Well, the BBC is after all an organ of the British state. What can you expect?

Apart from the above-mentioned item, one searches in vain for any media report, from north or south of the border, that is not highly critical of practically every aspect of Ms Alexander's dubious controversial doings of this past week. Her cunning plan concerning an independence referendum was botched and has blown up in her face, like all her cunning plans.

The consensus of opinion that one finds to be out there is that Ms Alexander has demonstrated herself to be a ruthlessly dangerous amateur and an indefensibly ineffectual defender of the Union.

The entire Alexander referendum pantomime has not been about the leader of Scottish Labour bravely asserting her parliamentary group's autonomy vis-a-vis the UK party. It has been about an arrogantly self-willed rogue politician whose undisciplined and chaotic blundering has caused in one week incalculable damage to the electoral prospects of the Labour Party on both sides of the border and to the Union, which, after over 300 years of being resolutely protected by unionist parties against any prospect of coming under assault by means of a referendum on independence, now stands defenceless against the coming constitutional storm which the Scottish Governent's scheduled independence referendum will unleash in 2010.

Mr Brown will almost certainly not be in office then to pick up the pieces. If he means what he told The Sunday Telegraph about doing "whatever is necessary" to protect the Union, he will contrive to get rid of this walking disaster this week. The SNP will no doubt be hoping that he will not prove to be sufficiently decisive to do so.

Apropos of Ian MacWhirter's contention that the Labour Party's apparent reversal of its policy reversal means that the SNP's referendum bill is now unlikely to be passed before the SNP is re-elected with an overall parliamentary majority in 2011, at least this will give them full control of the process.
Posted by: bodach beag, Skye on 9:44pm Sun 11 May 08
I'm confused.

Wendy Alexander stated clearly on the Politics Show that she wanted the Scottish people to have their say on independence (unlike the Tories and Liberals), so the Labour MSPs would not oppose the SNP's referendum bill. She added a caveat about the wording.

Iain says, " We are now told that the Wendyrendum was just a bluff, a tease, and that Labour always intended to vote against the SNP's bill for a referendum in 2010."

This isn't what she said, so I'm left as bewildered as ever.

Does anyone know what in the name of the wee woman is going on?
Posted by: Kadok, West End on 10:02pm Sun 11 May 08
I think this article is a defining moment for Iain MacWhirter as well as the Labour Party. Iain seems to be saying that as long as the SNP make clear they are not separtitist but instead progressive nationalists with a small 'n' who embrace social union of our nations then there will be many converts to indepedence.

Indeed he appears to be calling for Labour supporters and members to defect and get behind the SNP. There is no mention of the gradual federalism he has banged on about before.

I hope this is what he is doing and that he manages to take the Herald with him. If he does there will be a future for this paper. Scots are going to become extremely excited about a referendum and they need a quality paper to give a balanced view. If not - and Alf Young still sets the negative agenda - its sad decline to oblivion will track that of the Labour Party.

Time to update your blog Iain.
Posted by: Hugh Kerr, Edinburgh on 10:26pm Sun 11 May 08
Iain I agree with most of your article but I do think Labour have painted themselves into a corner over the referendum,if they vote it down in 2010 they will be destroyed in 2011.If they do vote for it with a Tory government in Westminster Scotland will vote for independence, I can only agree with the theory that Wendy is a closet nationalist!
Posted by: Hugh Kerr, Edinburgh on 10:27pm Sun 11 May 08
Iain I agree with most of your article but I do think Labour have painted themselves into a corner over the referendum,if they vote it down in 2010 they will be destroyed in 2011.If they do vote for it with a Tory government in Westminster Scotland will vote for independence, I can only agree with the theory that Wendy is a closet nationalist!
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 12:24am Mon 12 May 08

What Alex Salmond needs to do now to hasten Labour's disintegration is to show that .... he is no longer a separatist.
Iain, he has never been a "separatist" in the sense you seem to be using the word in this article. In recent years (certainly during Salmond's period as leader, from about 1987 wasn't it?) the SNP has been advocating exactly what you outline.
.... independence does not mean cutting Scotland off from the world
No. It never did.

Don't you remember Winnie Ewing's words on getting elected to the European Parliament? "Stop the world, Scotland wants to get on!" One of the things which attracts me most to the SNP's vision of independence is Scotland taking her place in the international scene, and ceasing to be an invisible country.

This of course includes relations with England. "England will find she has lost a surly lodger and gained a good neighbour." How much stronger could Britain be with (at least) three modern, independent countries working together in their common interests as the Scandinavian countries do. Scotland, England and Ireland forming a block in the Council of Ministers to protect the interests of these islands.

This has always been the SNP's vision. The word "separatist" is a smear coined by the unionists to frighten the horses. Iain, stop believing Labour party propaganda.

Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:24am Mon 12 May 08
The SNP is in the process of redefining independence as a new kind of union - a coming together of the various nations that make up the British Isles, including possibly the Republic of Ireland.


The word is Equality

2010/11, brign it on indeed!

Posted by: Brian Blessed, Glasgow on 12:32am Mon 12 May 08
Isn't it incredible how the BBC has omitted the Politics Scotland program from the BBC Iplayer. All the other regional shows are up!. I always assumed that we lived in a democracy with a free press and the BBC was world renowned for being impartial. It appears I am wrong.

I am reliably informed UUendy's latest Sunday lunchtime circus act will be up on YouTube some time tomorrow. iPlayer still shows every other regional variation but Scotland.

I try not to get paranoid about these things, but considering Scotland was the centre of political attention this week I find it co-incidental to say the least. Thankfully last week's range of interviews is still up on YouTube - Iain Gray's being sheer comedy genius.
Posted by: craigy1314, south lanarkshire on 12:33am Mon 12 May 08
brahann,
regarding the bbc's failure to allow access to the scots edition of their politics show, go to the bbc's web site and make a complaint. the more who complain the better chance we may get of having fair access to the shows we pay for.
here's the link
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/cgi-perl/complaints
Posted by: Galletlysouth, England on 8:51am Mon 12 May 08
An "independent" Scotland but with institutions in common with the remainder of the UK including the NHS & the Armed forces ! Truly this is newspeak. No two states with institutions that important in common can be independent. Is Salmond opting for a federation? Perhaps, but more likely he is disingenuously trying to convince the Scottish electorate that independence can be cost free.
Posted by: Bruce, Ayrshire on 9:27am Mon 12 May 08
Well said Morag! This is what attracted me to thge SNP when I fell out of love with the Labour Party. There is a sense, a very palpable one, of a party that wants the best for all the countries of the UK. I honestly think, as you do, that a coalition of British and Irish countries helping each other would be far more beneficial than the disfunctional and, lets be honest, gerrymandered, UK we have at present which exists, in my opinion, to further the cause of politicians seeking glory in London and little else.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 9:33am Mon 12 May 08
brahann wrote:
Isn't it incredible how the BBC has omitted the Politics Scotland program from the BBC Iplayer. All the other regional shows are up!. I always assumed that we lived in a democracy with a free press and the BBC was world renowned for being impartial. It appears I am wrong. There is open censorship in the BBC off politics in Scotland even to the point of not a mention on have I got news for you. What has happened to freedom of speech and freedom of information?
you can get the show from its webpage

http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/programmes/po
litics_show/default.
stm

You will need real player for it tho, juust click on the one that says scotland and watch latest show
Posted by: Ranting Rab, Carluke on 9:33am Mon 12 May 08
Galletlysouth, England.

Agreed, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

But many things are worth paying for.

Caveat emptor by all means but lets have the shop open!
Posted by: teamdroid on 9:35am Mon 12 May 08
Little bit disappointing Iain - your article in the Guardian last Monday (titled "Grasping the Thistle") basically called this wrong: you appeared to be praising Wendy then, for taking on Salmond on this issue. Now you're agreed with the rest of us that this was, well, yet another one of Double-U-e-n-d-y 's screwups. It was a policy announcement from Wendy, that should have been a big clue. A salient leson methinks, in commenting on anything Wendy does. Give it a couple of days to unravel.

It was astounding to read Sunday's statements from Wendy - she is clinically incapable of holding her hand up to admitting she got something wrong. The very first sentence: "The SNP have now made clear they will block any Referendum Bill Labour might have introduced." She can't find the guts to admit that she read the rulebook wrong, and Labour COULDN'T introduce a referendum Bill.

Oh, and agree with everyone else about the BBC website - shocking. But then, at least it's lying by omission, and trying to bury the story. This here very newspaper prints lies for the headlines...
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 9:53am Mon 12 May 08
It was astounding to read Sunday's statements from Wendy - she is clinically incapable of holding her hand up to admitting she got something wrong. The very first sentence: "The SNP have now made clear they will block any Referendum Bill Labour might have introduced." She can't find the guts to admit that she read the rulebook wrong, and Labour COULDN'T introduce a referendum Bill.



I was astounded and annoyed by this statement aswell. She keeps banging on anout the SNP not allowing the people a voice, erm what exactly does she thing the national conversation is about. I wish the media would stop trying to peddle this myth that wendy is intelligent, she clearly isn't and doesn't seem to have a grasp on any holyrood procedures or rules. First there was the donations scandal (if you believe it was a muddle rather than a fiddle that is) then more donations weren't declared on time, she's asking questions about a company which she should have as a registered interest and now this. The woman is an eejit!
Posted by: Anne, Glasgow on 9:55am Mon 12 May 08
Agree with barhann, Fife, about the BBC. I watched Reporting Scotland on Friday night with growing increduility about how they schedule the news. This was the day that Lord Forsyth made a controversial comment about Labour and independence for Scotland and where did the news scheduler hide - along with side snippets about other news. In fact it was hilarious, it came just before a 30 sec. piece about a snow plough, in MAY!!! Can't wait for independence when we ship this lot over the Border. On another hilarious note, isn't the story about Wendy and the Labour party lies over what she and Brown said too surreal for words. I killed myself laughing at the Paxman interview with Hazel Blears, who clearly said that the Cabinet were behind Wendy's 'bring it on' for a referundum on independence. Then the following day Brown said there would be no such thing. Labour party are now a joke in Scotland.
Posted by: turpie, clydesdale on 10:00am Mon 12 May 08
It's a pity you went to press so early or you could have added your thoughts on listening to the key whirring round and round in the Chis's back on BBC Scotland this morning. And the speed of delivery! I think that Radio Scotland, on its usual payment per syllable and a bonus for full stops ignored, was beaten at its own game. Boy, when I hear a politician deliver great truths at that speed I'm persuaded either (a) he's oan sump'n (in this case very unlikely) or (b) his case is weak and he has to cram as much Gattlinggun babble-speak into the time allotted as possible for he has to prove by speed and repitition to himself as much as to me how right is his cause via faster and ever faster detail and ever more detail ....and there is always the "stop the interviewer interrupting with awkward, even unarranged-beforehan
d questions" gambit.
Posted by: turpie, clydesdale on 10:00am Mon 12 May 08
It's a pity you went to press so early or you could have added your thoughts on listening to the key whirring round and round in the Chis's back on BBC Scotland this morning. And the speed of delivery! I think that Radio Scotland, on its usual payment per syllable and a bonus for full stops ignored, was beaten at its own game. Boy, when I hear a politician deliver great truths at that speed I'm persuaded either (a) he's oan sump'n (in this case very unlikely) or (b) his case is weak and he has to cram as much Gattlinggun babble-speak into the time allotted as possible for he has to prove by speed and repitition to himself as much as to me how right is his cause via faster and ever faster detail and ever more detail ....and there is always the "stop the interviewer interrupting with awkward, even unarranged-beforehan
d questions" gambit.
Posted by: turpie, clydesdale on 10:08am Mon 12 May 08
Again, my apologies to the world at large for a double-post. Clicking twice is force of habit, but I suspect Herald Comment software ain't up to the job.
Posted by: Samoyed, Costa del Menie on 10:26am Mon 12 May 08
Sorry, we couldn't find any programmes matching "Politics show scotland"
Suggestions:

Try again by typing something different in the Find Programmes box
Browse programmes using the links to Last 7 days, Categories or A to Z
We offer a selection of BBC programmes from the past seven days, and aim to make these available as soon as possible following broadcast. However, sports, musical events, overseas and other programmes may not be available owing to rights issues (Why?)
Posted by: boycottasda, Dundee on 10:28am Mon 12 May 08
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/complaints/make_com
plaint_step1.shtml

Use link above to compain to BBC about zero coverage of Scottish Politics on BBCi - when ALL other regional politics ARE covered.
Posted by: Mac, Dundee on 10:37am Mon 12 May 08
It is really fascinating to see the Unionist establishment turn on one of it's own. Wendy Alexander is now subject to a level of abuse, smear and innuendo by the her own party and Unionist media that is normally reserved for nationalists and in particular Alex Salmond.

Does Wendy deserve such denigration, being called a 'politcial suicide bomber' by Labour ministers, a 'political pygmy' by Gordon Brown and other unmentionables by Unionist hacks, north and south of the border? The answer is a BIG YES!

After all in last year's Scottish elections Wendy was part of the Unionist pack that preached that Scotland was too stupid, too poor and too small to run it's own affairs. Worse still Wendy saw no offence in Scots being called a nation of 'subsidy junkies' and 'drunkards' by Westminster politicians.

It is remarkable that the Unionist establishment were able to forgive and forget that Wendy Alexander has form with regard political u-turns, on being disloyal, acting on impulse, that she broke the criminal law, treating colleagues as errant 5 year olds, of leading a shambolic opposition in Holyrood. They turned a blind eye to all that because she was one of then, an anointed one, a defender of the Union. Until that is the ultimate act of betrayal - supporting, for whatever end, a referendum of Scottish independence. It also underscores the fact that Unionism is an act of faith, it is unable to pass the test of criticism.

What has become clear in this fiasco is the type campaign Unionists will indulge in when it comes to an independence referendum. Make no mistake Unionist politicians and Unionist media will stop at nothing to smear nationalist politicians and scare Scottish voters. But Scots held their nerve in 2007, they will hold their nerves in 2010. Scots will see that the Unionists have nothing positive to say and the alternatives on offer at Westminster in the shape of a resurgent Tory party, and a future Labour party purged of Scots, will too much to stomach north of the border.

Scots will soon realise that independence will secure Scotland from the excesses of Westminster and Whitehall. Scots will vote for independence in the full knowledge that it will secure our economic, social and political future.
Posted by: Mac, Dundee on 10:39am Mon 12 May 08
It is really fascinating to see the Unionist establishment turn on one of it's own. Wendy Alexander is now subject to a level of abuse, smear and innuendo by the her own party and Unionist media that is normally reserved for nationalists and in particular Alex Salmond.

Does Wendy deserve such denigration, being called a 'politcial suicide bomber' by Labour ministers, a 'political pygmy' by Gordon Brown and other unmentionables by Unionist hacks, north and south of the border? The answer is a BIG YES!

After all in last year's Scottish elections Wendy was part of the Unionist pack that preached that Scotland was too stupid, too poor and too small to run it's own affairs. Worse still Wendy saw no offence in Scots being called a nation of 'subsidy junkies' and 'drunkards' by Westminster politicians.

It is remarkable that the Unionist establishment were able to forgive and forget that Wendy Alexander has form with regard political u-turns, on being disloyal, acting on impulse, that she broke the criminal law, treating colleagues as errant 5 year olds, of leading a shambolic opposition in Holyrood. They turned a blind eye to all that because she was one of then, an anointed one, a defender of the Union. Until that is the ultimate act of betrayal - supporting, for whatever end, a referendum of Scottish independence. It also underscores the fact that Unionism is an act of faith, it is unable to pass the test of criticism.

What has become clear in this fiasco is the type campaign Unionists will indulge in when it comes to an independence referendum. Make no mistake Unionist politicians and Unionist media will stop at nothing to smear nationalist politicians and scare Scottish voters. But Scots held their nerve in 2007, they will hold their nerves in 2010. Scots will see that the Unionists have nothing positive to say and the alternatives on offer at Westminster in the shape of a resurgent Tory party, and a future Labour party purged of Scots, will too much to stomach north of the border.

Scots will soon realise that independence will secure Scotland from the excesses of Westminster and Whitehall. Scots will vote for independence in the full knowledge that it will secure our economic, social and political future.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 10:42am Mon 12 May 08
Samoyed wrote:
Sorry, we couldn't find any programmes matching "Politics show scotland" Suggestions: Try again by typing something different in the Find Programmes box Browse programmes using the links to Last 7 days, Categories or A to Z We offer a selection of BBC programmes from the past seven days, and aim to make these available as soon as possible following broadcast. However, sports, musical events, overseas and other programmes may not be available owing to rights issues (Why?)
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/programmes/po
litics_show/default.
stm

this is the website for the politics show, there is a bit at the bottom which shows different 'regions' and you can watch the scotland one.
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 10:46am Mon 12 May 08
Did anyone read "Alexander's Woes " in this paper?
The last paragraph says that someone has to end the Honeymoon for the SNP, I want to ask " Why ? "
Why should it be ended when it is benefitting Scots and Scotland?
Posted by: Neil, Aberdeenshire on 11:02am Mon 12 May 08
Galletlysouth wrote:
An "independent" Scotland but with institutions in common with the remainder of the UK including the NHS & the Armed forces ! Truly this is newspeak. No two states with institutions that important in common can be independent. Is Salmond opting for a federation? Perhaps, but more likely he is disingenuously trying to convince the Scottish electorate that independence can be cost free.
You mustn't take what a journo writes as gospel. This is far more Iain MacWhirter's vision than anything proposed by the SNP. There will certainly be cross-border cooperation in many areas but Scotland and England will not have the same health service or armed forces post independence.
Posted by: Vivas, Embra on 11:21am Mon 12 May 08
Disgusted Dorothy wrote:
Did anyone read "Alexander's Woes " in this paper? The last paragraph says that someone has to end the Honeymoon for the SNP, I want to ask " Why ? " Why should it be ended when it is benefitting Scots and Scotland?
We have on it record of course (and it's one of my favourite SLAB quotes ... so far anyway) that Lord Foulkesake has accused the SNP of "doing it deliberately".

They - must - be - stopped - before - they - do - any - more - good. This good government is putting the union in peril... !
Posted by: Clare, Lanarkshire on 12:16pm Mon 12 May 08
bodach beag wrote:
I'm confused. Wendy Alexander stated clearly on the Politics Show that she wanted the Scottish people to have their say on independence (unlike the Tories and Liberals), so the Labour MSPs would not oppose the SNP's referendum bill. She added a caveat about the wording. Iain says, " We are now told that the Wendyrendum was just a bluff, a tease, and that Labour always intended to vote against the SNP's bill for a referendum in 2010." This isn't what she said, so I'm left as bewildered as ever. Does anyone know what in the name of the wee woman is going on?
You are correct that Wendy didn't use the words bluff or tease. She used the word "tactic" to describe her demand for a referendum and effectively suggested she hadn't been serious.

When questioned further by Campbell on the fact that she had committed Labour to support a referendum Bill she then backed away from that too by muttering various things about wording. In short she was in denial about that too.

What we must take out of all she said yesterday is as MacWhirter says, it was a bluff, a tease, and not serious. In dragging Scotland's future into her games Alexander surely proved then just how much she "trusts the Scotttish people" or indeed how much respect she has for the idea of taking the debate about our future seriously.
Posted by: Strathturret, Montrose on 1:35pm Mon 12 May 08
I'm not quite sure that I share Iain's views on a post Independence Scotland. But we can argue these points when we get there!

I thought that Wendy's remarks yesteday were interesting in that she repeatedly used the word Tactic to descibe her actions. So Labour were indulging in tactics and using the future of Scotlabnd as a political football and also the union they hold to be so precious.

Of course if the SNP had indulged in such tactics their attitude would have been entiely different.

Iain seems confused about what exactly is Labour policy (you can't exactly blame him!). I thought that Wendy was saying she was still for a referendum (but no blank cheques) and she was toying with UDI for Labour in Scotland.

Its a mess. I still think she'll resign on Wednesday evening. Rangers success/failure will fill the tabloids on Thursday so burying any bad news.
Posted by: turpie, clydesdale on 1:43pm Mon 12 May 08
Mac,Dundee, you have my sympathy...is there a Herald Comment Software fan-club we could resign from?


Posted by: Brian Blessed, Glasgow on 3:54pm Mon 12 May 08
Wendy's Politics Show interview from yesterday now on YouTube:

tinyurl.com/3razzs
tinyurl.com/3erdtz
tinyurl.com/43hodb

No thanks to BBC iPlayer!
Posted by: turpie, clydesdale on 4:08pm Mon 12 May 08
Strathturret, Montrose, offers....
"Its a mess. I still think she'll resign on Wednesday evening. Rangers success/failure will fill the tabloids on Thursday so burying any bad news"

And with apologies to Mr. Posh..she must score...do a "Bendy like Wendy?"
Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 2:29pm Tue 13 May 08
What I think will swing the referendum for Scotland in the end will be when business, I mean big international business, swings behind Sir Alex and the SNP.

Just think of the advantages of a having Celtic Tiger roaring away bringing wealth to these islands as opposed to a continuation of being a sour depressed region as Labour and Tories would like to keep us. Just like Hong Kong boosts China, Scotland would be a real wealth generator and would indirectly pull the North of England out of its slumber.

Scotland could look for early Euro entry and provide a considerable boost to the major financial institutions based here. We have space, resources and talent to grow and a cost base that is still competitive.

So I do not think London can count in any future referendum from the support of international capital. They will see Scottish self government as part of the restructuring and adjustments involved in managing the decline of a post imperial state based around a single large capital city. No, there will be quite a few influential people backing Alex when the time comes.
Posted by: boab, Ayrshire on 3:00pm Tue 13 May 08
One thing I would like to add is that I'd be very wary of welcoming any MSPs from the Labour party, what with the track records of quite a few of them they're bound to have skeletons in the closet. Best to stick to (so far) clean politicians and hope more are elected next time round. Besides, a defection would indicate that they are only doing it to save thier jobs. If what was happening in their own party was really that much of a problem to them they'd try to change it from the inside rather than running away.
Posted by: Macthickey, Irvine on 10:27am Thu 15 May 08
Ian McWhirters article is getting ' grey'. However I have no doubt the
'The Iron Curtain' which has fallen on comments about the so called
'Opposition' Partys will rise again some time ; so much for the UK
Unionists spreading Democracy to the World. Democracy has died
in the Heralds Media farce.
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