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   Web Issue 3241 September 8 2008   
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Confused? You will be as Labour muddies the water

Wendy Alexander has been clear and consistent in her support for a constitutional referendum, one of her allies insists. This was not a U-turn. No, it was just that she hadn't previously spoken publicly about it.

Perhaps the Scottish Labour leader shared her views with her toddler twins, reading the bedtime tale about shooting Alex the Wily Nationalist Fox.

But when she appeared to stumble into the biggest constitutional gamble in recent history, during a BBC interview on Sunday, it came as a surprise to others.

Even she seemed to take herself aback. At first there had been "tactical discussions". Then she was wasn't ruling out support for a ballot. And then she was nonchalantly taunting "bring it on" - why was Alex Salmond scared of the verdict of the Scottish people?

It was later claimed the issue had been forced by a Sunday newspaper article, saying Labour was poised to call Salmond's bluff.

But this was unsourced and there was no need for Wendy Alexander to change recent opposition to a referendum: "Because I don't believe in independence, it's as simple as that It's not my politics Those who want it should argue for it".

This newshound sought more. Was this cleared with cabinet colleagues? Er, not as such, was the reply How about the Labour MSP group? Soundings were taken last September, and, "broadly speaking, there is a majority who support a referendum". Will Labour now push for a third referendum question, asking if people want enhanced powers for Holyrood within the UK? "You're getting ahead of yourself on that."

I offered a clue: they would be mad not to, as that option depresses independence support. "Oh, yes - well, probably."

But yesterday, the leader preferred a straightforward: "independence: yes or no".

One MSP said this is not so much party policy as "open for discussion". No kidding.

How about the Westminster leadership: is Gordon Brown up for this, or has his dithering on SNP strategy led to him being effectively bounced?

"You'd have to ask Downing Street." So I did, and was told the Prime Minister is unpersuaded.

Another Whitehall source responded: "We're leaving Wendy to do the talking on this."

Now, there is nothing wrong with surprises. The grim, grinding predictability of Gordon Brown is a voter turn-off.

They like politicians who tend to go off-message, mis-speak and take occasional risks; Boris Johnson, it seems, or Tony Blair on Clause Four.

But the Wendy U-turn was a new kind of risk, not so much leading from the front as from behind the sofa after a poll drubbing.

Her LibDem allies in the constitutional commission condemned it as panic, putting tactics before principle.

Indeed, if Nicol Stephen were that flexible on a referendum, he could have been in government over the past year.

And what is the SNP to make of it all?

If it tables referendum plans, Wendy will vote for them, but will her MSPs? And is there now a Holyrood majority for a referendum, or not?

One of the more thoughtful Labour musings on its referendum dilemma reckons the SNP wins either way. This is based on the assumption - liable, no doubt, to furious denial - that the Nationalist leadership would privately like to tone down its commitment to blatant Braveheart-style frrreeeedom.

Party woad-wearers won't let them, but some admit it holds them back electorally.

So either an independence referendum says "yes", which is fine by the SNP, starting negotiations on splitting the British family silver, or after a "no" Alex Salmond accepts the Scottish people have spoken and a referendum is a once-in-a-generation opportunity (a period he recently defined as 18 years).

He then tells his party they should rethink independence.

Yes, Scotland should have more autonomy, control over oil, tax and so on, but it could be within a much looser federation of united kingdoms (his preferred monarchist construction nowadays, no doubt to avoid scaring the Household Cavalry).

There is an opportunity for Scotland to create a new type of nationhood, somewhere between the current UK relationship and that which exists between European Union members.

For the SNP, it could have a similar effect to the decision, 20 years ago, to back independence in Europe, instantly blunting the charge that Scotland would be isolated behind border guards, with no trading partners.

Celebrating a year in power, their opponents in disarray, Nationalists may wonder why they should give up dreaming of the trappings of nationhood so readily.

But in reality this scenario frightens Labour more than them, because this shift - similar to those by independence movements in Quebec and Catalonia - could put Nationalists in the Scottish driving seat for decades.

Has Wendy Alexander thought this through?

Perhaps she has; clearly, consistently, but privately.


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Posted by: Kadok, West End on 10:08pm Mon 5 May 08
Who wrote this?
Posted by: Kadok, West End on 10:13pm Mon 5 May 08
It's Glenn Campbell.
Posted by: Kadok, West End on 10:19pm Mon 5 May 08
Listen Glenn. I know you think you have your finger on the pulse and all that but I can assure you of this. There is NOONE in the SNP who wants federation. We want normality and we will win the referendum.
Posted by: Buchan Loon, Aberdeenshire on 10:23pm Mon 5 May 08
Glen where?
Posted by: sailingbuy on 11:52pm Mon 5 May 08
odd writing needs a name to be fine
Posted by: Ramsay, Hamburg on 12:22am Tue 6 May 08
"If it tables referendum plans, Wendy will vote for them, but will her MSPs? And is there now a Holyrood majority for a referendum, or not?"

From what I have heard so far it is not even clear at this point that Ms Alexander would vote for them. If she were to commit the Labour group at Holyrood to supporting the SNP's independence-referen
dum bill, that would be something that could be taken seriously even though that would still leave room to manoeuvre on parts of it that they would wish to reserve the right to seek to amend, such as clauses concerning the number of options to appear on the ballot paper and the wording of the questions.

However, as I have heard no such firm commitment from her, this looks as if it may be essentially no more than a desperate insubstantial cheap attempt to reduce the damage caused to Labour by its opposition to an independence referendum. Just another Labour muddle or fuddle . . . or fiddle-faddle? The SNP clearly need to press her on the detail of this and no doubt will do so in the course of this week. The next FMQs should be interesting.
Posted by: Samoyed, Costa del Menie on 1:10am Tue 6 May 08
Wendy forgets that she is not the leader of Scottish Labour. Gordon Brown is. She is only the leader of the Labour MSPs at Holyrood.

“This decision is an indication of her desperation given her own poll ratings. It is almost as if we are always tail-ending and following Salmond. Surely there are more important issues than this for Labour. Who exactly has she consulted on this?”

A senior Labour MP said.

Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 9:48am Tue 6 May 08
This newshound sought more
A dog with no name?
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 9:51am Tue 6 May 08
Another Whitehall source responded: "We're leaving Wendy to do the talking on this."

Now, there is nothing wrong with surprises. The grim, grinding predictability of Gordon Brown is a voter turn-off.
Recall last year when Gazza Broon's other poodle was sent to USA to announce that Britain won't be joined at the hip wuth the US.

Uproar, Broon denies it's his policy, wee Dougie crushed.

Deja ecoute , eh Broon?

Posted by: GML, right here on 10:14am Tue 6 May 08
If Scotland had become independent in 1979, gaining the revenues described in the McCrone report and escaping the rule of Margaret Thatcher and the Conservative party, do you think Scotland would be better of or worse off than it is today?

History has an opportunity to repeat itself in a couple of years. The Conservatives look almost certain to gain power in Westminster for two terms at least, regardless of what Scotland votes for. Oil revenues have gone through the roof, with even higher prices forecast. It seems a very fair bet that Cameron's Tories, Old Etonians that they are, will use the windfall revenue to cut taxation on higher rate taxpayers and investors, focusing on their core voters plus the swing 'Middle England' voters, and will let social programmes wither.

My question to Labour supporters is this : do you think Scotland will be better off with ten years under the Tories and the oil windfall diverted to their supporters' pockets, largely in the south east of England; or as an independent country with a strong left of centre tradition of social welfare, and with the means to pay for this welfare?

(Hint: take a trip to Norway if you want to see what 21st century socialism looks like.)
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 10:16am Tue 6 May 08
The image of wee Dougie crushed is most pleasing ,Duns!
Preferably by a nice steam roller!
Posted by: Mac, Dundee on 11:31am Tue 6 May 08
Who would you vote for?

Gordon Brown

or

Alex Salmond

It really is a no brainer, and shows that Wendy Alexander's blabbings have put the Labour party in real danger of a drubbing by the SNP in a referendum on who governs Scotland.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 2:52pm Tue 6 May 08
Kadok wrote:
Who wrote this?

In the printed copy it has Dougie Fraser's coupon against the piece
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 2:53pm Tue 6 May 08
Ramsay wrote:
"If it tables referendum plans, Wendy will vote for them, but will her MSPs? And is there now a Holyrood majority for a referendum, or not?"

From what I have heard so far it is not even clear at this point that Ms Alexander would vote for them. If she were to commit the Labour group at Holyrood to supporting the SNP's independence-referen
dum bill, that would be something that could be taken seriously even though that would still leave room to manoeuvre on parts of it that they would wish to reserve the right to seek to amend, such as clauses concerning the number of options to appear on the ballot paper and the wording of the questions.

However, as I have heard no such firm commitment from her, this looks as if it may be essentially no more than a desperate insubstantial cheap attempt to reduce the damage caused to Labour by its opposition to an independence referendum. Just another Labour muddle or fuddle . . . or fiddle-faddle? The SNP clearly need to press her on the detail of this and no doubt will do so in the course of this week. The next FMQs should be interesting.

That's what we need to hear from labour, do they as a party support a referendum and will they vote for it?

Wendy's one woman banshee crusade is just that
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 5:20pm Tue 6 May 08
i agree dougie fraser wrote it.
Posted by: George Laird, Glasgow on 6:02pm Tue 6 May 08
Dear All

If Wendy Alexander tables a bill, the SNP should abstain and make her look more of a fool.

It is acceptable to rub her face in it.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 7:00pm Tue 6 May 08
Yes, Scotland should have more autonomy, control over oil, tax and so on, but it could be within a much looser federation of united kingdoms (his preferred monarchist construction nowadays, no doubt to avoid scaring the Household Cavalry).

Is this to be the welcome change to debate on Scotlands constituional future? If so I welcome such input, the Union would not have found itself in such difficulty had it evolved and changed.

I myself believe the there will always be a Union of sorts, however one that doesn't see all of Scotlands resources being sent South and frittered away with no thought to our future generations of Scots. We are capable of co-operating with our English friends without giving up our autonomy and sovereignty.

One thing is for sure, I believe that we are witnessing the end of political Brit/Scots of the likes of Brown, Browne, Harris, Cairns, Darling, Alexander (both), Moffat, Martin, Joyce et al. Some of these characters have been so unrepresentative of Scots in general as to have seemed almost 'alien'.

One can only hope that there are more journalists like MacWhirter and Hutcheon who will shake off the Unionist shackles and start reporting honestly.

As an aside, Unionists in public life must try to contain their bitterness. The outburst on radio today by Douglas Frasers wife is not the first example of bitterness clouding professionalism, it has happened before.
Posted by: Ranting Rab, Carluke on 8:21am Thu 8 May 08
Why is there no author's name? I do not have access to a printed copy.

Why are such anonymous articles allowed by the Editor?

And of course there are all the 'sources' quoted namelessly again and again in such articles.

Is fear the key?
Posted by: Macthickey, Irvine on 12:08am Fri 9 May 08
Wendy is very flexible on Referendum Question .
U TURN -- MY TURN --U TURN--MY TURN---ABOUT TURN
MY TURN --U TURN--MY TURN--U TURN--ABOUT TURN--
THE GRAND OLD DUCHESS OF YORK
Posted by: rob4i, Scottish Borders on 3:19am Fri 9 May 08
If ever there was a case for Independence, it was right there, in the audience of Questiontime when an Englishman Roger Bristow put the question, and I quote "Should the English have a referendum on separation from the dependencies of Scotland and Wales" unquote.

I suspect it was a deliberate attempt to antagonise the Scots, but still shows the psyche of far too many English, that the Union 'IS' England and although supposed to be signatories of the Union, Scotland somehow, through English arrogant imperialist eyes, is a dependent and scrounging add on to their superior nation.

I so wished to have been in that audience when he said it, and was able to tell him to stop being so gullible in believing your own country's press and that Scotland is subsidising you lot !

THAT, quite simply is why Scotland should rid themselves of the revenue draining Union in this, the 21st century!!
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 6:36pm Fri 9 May 08
IF, this is Dougie Fraser's work then there's hope for him yet.

Dougie why not try to get the interview with des(perate) browne or even mcchattering cairns, both of whom have been refusing to speak on newsnight programes
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