What is the alternative to oil’s alternatives?
 |
| BEYOND THE PALE: Is wind the only answer? |
As blots on the landscape go, wind farms are not the worst. I would really like to pretend to think differently, but I don't, and can't. Beyond the pale I may be, but to my eye these things are pretty enough, in a good light. So there.
I try hard to see them as others see them, to understand how grim presences are inflicted on precious landscapes. I have done my very best to remember that these are brutish industrial installations, not benign artworks. Still, I'm not sure.
I grasp, too, that there are serious arguments over reliability of supply, and over the real total contribution, if any, that the farms can make to reducing carbon emissions. I have no desire, meanwhile, to see habitats destroyed, wildlife threatened, or visitors repelled. Just up the road from my own backyard a battle royal was fought recently over the relative claims of turbines, tourism, ancient moorland and the rights of residents. The march of the wind machines is halted, for now. But I'm not sure.
Three factors explain the feeble state of my opinions. First - and why do I feel like apologising? - the turbines do not offend me. True, I don't have to live in the shadow of the things. True, the rejected proposal for the Lewis wind farm involved construction on an intimidating scale: 181 turbines, each 140 metres high,
do not add up to some cute eco-hippy project. But, and generally speaking, a wind farm seems to me a stately, unthreatening, near-natural thing.
Hence my second excuse for a thought. You want ugly? You want something that offends the eye to blindness, scars the landscape
and flares in the night like something from the opening
titles of Bladerunner? Grangemouth is the place. This counts, I think, as an irony.
Here we all are, panicking or stoutly refusing to panic, over tomorrow's strike. Here we are experiencing a potent reminder of the fragility of our carbon economy yet still finding time to shout the odds over wind farms and Scotland's potential - only that
- as a source of renewables. The First Minister urges, sensibly, that we should all try to use public transport. But in Edinburgh LRT talks of taking its buses off the road for want of fuel.
We are being given a taste, small but real, of what is meant by energy security. One refinery in one small northern European country is threatened with
closure and the oil futures price hits $117 a barrel. Work at a single refinery faces a mere two-day strike and the Forties pipeline, conveying one-third of Britain's daily oil production, may be partially or entirely shut down. These count as difficulties, not emergencies, but they feel like hard news from the near-future.
So I pick my way towards my third thought. If the Lewis wind farm is an abomination, if every wind farm development faces a righteous (even rational)
challenge, what do we do instead? To be more brutal, what if our realistic choices disappear and we are left with only one question? This: do we have to hurt the planet a bit more in order to
begin to save it?
You don't want a wind farm on your moors? You want to preserve Lewis, its big skies and golden eagles, intact? I have no quarrel. I have a list of problems, instead.
Around the world, items get ticked from that inventory with each passing month and I keep on asking: what remains? Amid the non-science that infests my brain there is an acceptance that global warming is happening. I would probably embrace the proposition just to avoid being mistaken for Jeremy Clarkson. I believe the threat is real.
But what became of biofuels? We can file that, I think, under "Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time". Hydro, then? There might be capacity to be squeezed (though not much) from Scotland's abundant water, but in India and China people have died defending their communities from someone's rational plan to drown homes. Solar? A hobby for those who can afford it. The rest of the free energy nature is forever throwing around? We have mentioned issues involved with wind power. The best estimates for wave - and I speak as someone capable of dating Salter's Duck - say that Grangemouth might be in business for a while. You could say the same about neat ideas for carbon capture, for hydrogen cells, for you name it.
Scotland's government has noble aspirations for our clean, green future. Given the alternatives, and when prodded awake, so do I. It is fascinating, nevertheless, that a single refinery dedicated to dirty old fuels can loom so large in the week the Lewis wind farm is rejected.
I can be as patriotic as the next misuser of energy over the claim that Scotland's installed capacity of renewables exceeds its nuclear output. Three notional cheers for us. But I've seen my heating bills. We have not even begun to move beyond the carbon economy.
On the level of simple politics, the Lewis decision leaves our government with a larger problem than Grangemouth and a debt-beset management's decision to pick a fight. If "Europe's biggest wind development" is unacceptable - and if ministers would stop hiding behind spurious readings of European law - how do we get to that renewable future? More importantly, when?
I protested against the construction of Torness, once upon a time. A wee birl down the A1 with the usual suspects, bearing our self-evident truths. We were not wrong about the economic and environmental legacies of nuclear, and those facts have not altered.
The world, though, has had to turn its attention in other directions, ready or not. With Grangemouth persuading even a Prime Minister that people are on edge, and with every apology to those who have to think about energy policy, I'm left with this: if not nuclear, what?
An SNP government can abhor the nastiest fuel, in essential terms, of the lot. If it also rejects the Lewis wind farm, however, it appears to be clinging to the remnants of an alternative. "Alternatives" are the great possible-hypothetical of all political debate. But where are we, actually, and what do actually we do?
I hear no answers. None worth the name, at any rate. Go with nuclear, against every instinct? Dig coal, despite ghosts of generations? Risk a magnificent eagle on Lewis? Build another Grangemouth and hope that Brazil has found a big, deep pocket of fresh black oil? Like a great many people, I don't care for these choices.
Those greener than I, if honest, would tell you straight: reduce consumption, reduce it ruthlessly, and end waste. Our local Grangemouth problem, they would say, might even give a few an early lesson in responsible energy use. But certain realities persist.
Tell me about the condition of the planet, by all means. Just don't invite me to lecture a Third or Fourth World family on the many virtues of starving for a while longer while I judge the aesthetic merits of a wind farm.
I overstate the argument, predictably enough. Still, you
tend not to notice how very
pretty a turbine on a hillside can be if you own neither the hill nor the turbine.
© All rights reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part without
permission is prohibited.

Posted by: wee folding bike on 6:34am Sat 26 Apr 08
I like them too. Form through function.
Hoping to spring clean at least one bike today and then look forward to another week of not using fossil fuels for getting to work.
I like them too. Form through function.
Hoping to spring clean at least one bike today and then look forward to another week of not using fossil fuels for getting to work.
Posted by: stephenbeagrie, Galashiels on 8:51am Sat 26 Apr 08
Nail on the head, Mr Bell.
Why is it that the words "progress" and "inevitable" are trotted out every time some monstrosity, from nuclear power plants down to golf courses is built over a site of environmental / scientific interest, yet wind farms are considered unacceptable?
I suppose I should be glad that Scots can still protest against something, even if its the "no in ma back yaird" crew.
I happen to think they look fantastic (on land, or set a few miles offshore). If fields of turbines aren't the choice of remote communities, why not encourage these communities (with help; technical and financial) to run something on a smaller, community based scale?
Surely the incentive of self-sufficiency (or at least in part) for a village, or group of farms to put up solar panels and share, say half a dozen turbines is a reasonable compromise. The long term economic and environmental savings would more than offset the initial cost.
Heck, we could even, as a nation, create and innovate an industry that provides jobs, income and... oh, never mind...
Failing that, we could always power one off Nicol Stephen's gob.
Nail on the head, Mr Bell.
Why is it that the words "progress" and "inevitable" are trotted out every time some monstrosity, from nuclear power plants down to golf courses is built over a site of environmental / scientific interest, yet wind farms are considered unacceptable?
I suppose I should be glad that Scots can still protest against something, even if its the "no in ma back yaird" crew.
I happen to think they look fantastic (on land, or set a few miles offshore). If fields of turbines aren't the choice of remote communities, why not encourage these communities (with help; technical and financial) to run something on a smaller, community based scale?
Surely the incentive of self-sufficiency (or at least in part) for a village, or group of farms to put up solar panels and share, say half a dozen turbines is a reasonable compromise. The long term economic and environmental savings would more than offset the initial cost.
Heck, we could even, as a nation, create and innovate an industry that provides jobs, income and... oh, never mind...
Failing that, we could always power one off Nicol Stephen's gob.
Posted by: Boxer, Down on the farm on 9:50am Sat 26 Apr 08
We arent actually building windfarms to benefit anyone else except ourselves. So if you are a 3rd or 4th world country and want windfarms then you go right ahead. The problem is that no one looks at any other alternatives other than wind. Yet most houses even in scotland would benefit from using solar panels to provide power to your home or office. It's completely idiotic to dismiss hydro, solar, wave or any other alternative to wind.
The real problem is this belief that you have to carpet scotland with windfarms and thats what many people object to. Theres no proof that they are a silver bullet.
Blinkers off please
We arent actually building windfarms to benefit anyone else except ourselves. So if you are a 3rd or 4th world country and want windfarms then you go right ahead. The problem is that no one looks at any other alternatives other than wind. Yet most houses even in scotland would benefit from using solar panels to provide power to your home or office. It's completely idiotic to dismiss hydro, solar, wave or any other alternative to wind.
The real problem is this belief that you have to carpet scotland with windfarms and thats what many people object to. Theres no proof that they are a silver bullet.
Blinkers off please
Posted by: turpie, clydesdale on 10:48am Sat 26 Apr 08
I ,and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, look to Ian Bell for heavy-weight comment often with the unusual view (Lord knows, that's scarce in the Scottish media) and so I was a wee bit disappointed in today's lightweight piece on windfarms. It had, for me, a whiff of the "Do me a few hundred words on something topical..lay off the strike, everybody else is onto the strike.. even the BBC is onto the strike".
A quick rake-about on the web will turn up Dr. John Etherington's presentation on windfarm subsidies (It blows the windfarm business out of the park) or, nearer to home, A.R.Nelson's letter to the Editor in yesterday's Herald, likewise.
As for alternative energy sources, why subsidise an inefficient "only when the wind blows" method of generation when, living in an almost fiord country, we are blessed with tidal sea-power 24/365?
I ,and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, look to Ian Bell for heavy-weight comment often with the unusual view (Lord knows, that's scarce in the Scottish media) and so I was a wee bit disappointed in today's lightweight piece on windfarms. It had, for me, a whiff of the "Do me a few hundred words on something topical..lay off the strike, everybody else is onto the strike.. even the BBC is onto the strike".
A quick rake-about on the web will turn up Dr. John Etherington's presentation on windfarm subsidies (It blows the windfarm business out of the park) or, nearer to home, A.R.Nelson's letter to the Editor in yesterday's Herald, likewise.
As for alternative energy sources, why subsidise an inefficient "only when the wind blows" method of generation when, living in an almost fiord country, we are blessed with tidal sea-power 24/365?
Posted by: turpie, clydesdale on 10:48am Sat 26 Apr 08
I ,and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, look to Ian Bell for heavy-weight comment often with the unusual view (Lord knows, that's scarce in the Scottish media) and so I was a wee bit disappointed in today's lightweight piece on windfarms. It had, for me, a whiff of the "Do me a few hundred words on something topical..lay off the strike, everybody else is onto the strike.. even the BBC is onto the strike".
A quick rake-about on the web will turn up Dr. John Etherington's presentation on windfarm subsidies (It blows the windfarm business out of the park) or, nearer to home, A.R.Nelson's letter to the Editor in yesterday's Herald, likewise.
As for alternative energy sources, why subsidise an inefficient "only when the wind blows" method of generation when, living in an almost fiord country, we are blessed with tidal sea-power 24/365?
I ,and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, look to Ian Bell for heavy-weight comment often with the unusual view (Lord knows, that's scarce in the Scottish media) and so I was a wee bit disappointed in today's lightweight piece on windfarms. It had, for me, a whiff of the "Do me a few hundred words on something topical..lay off the strike, everybody else is onto the strike.. even the BBC is onto the strike".
A quick rake-about on the web will turn up Dr. John Etherington's presentation on windfarm subsidies (It blows the windfarm business out of the park) or, nearer to home, A.R.Nelson's letter to the Editor in yesterday's Herald, likewise.
As for alternative energy sources, why subsidise an inefficient "only when the wind blows" method of generation when, living in an almost fiord country, we are blessed with tidal sea-power 24/365?
Posted by: nabodican, Rural Scotland on 11:39am Sat 26 Apr 08
Ian Bell seems to be missing the point regarding windfarms.
While there is no doubt that they are a blot on the landscape, particularly in rural settings. The real issue is that they are not an alternative to any other 24/7 power station, they are only "as well as"
Nor do they reduce emissions because Longannet and Cockenzie burn as much coal as they ever did.
To compare them with Grangemouth is nonsense ! grangemouth probably occupies around 100 acres while Scotlands 1000 wind turbines occupy hundreds of thousands of acres of what was generally pristine landscape.
The worst part of these 1000 turbines is what you don't see - " the 2,000,000 tonnes of reinforced concrete holding them down, never to be removed.!!!!!!
Ian Bell seems to be missing the point regarding windfarms.
While there is no doubt that they are a blot on the landscape, particularly in rural settings. The real issue is that they are not an alternative to any other 24/7 power station, they are only "as well as"
Nor do they reduce emissions because Longannet and Cockenzie burn as much coal as they ever did.
To compare them with Grangemouth is nonsense ! grangemouth probably occupies around 100 acres while Scotlands 1000 wind turbines occupy hundreds of thousands of acres of what was generally pristine landscape.
The worst part of these 1000 turbines is what you don't see - " the 2,000,000 tonnes of reinforced concrete holding them down, never to be removed.!!!!!!
Posted by: wee folding bike on 12:25pm Sat 26 Apr 08
nabodican,
There is a doubt. I like them.
nabodican,
There is a doubt. I like them.
Posted by: Vronsky, Scotland on 10:37pm Sat 26 Apr 08
"I hear no answers."
That's because you're not listening. You could try doing a bit of research - you know - read the odd book or something. Here's a radical thought: dismantle that MFI hostess bar with genuine gilt-plated taps and matching trim at the end of your living room, and install a bookcase. They're truly wonderful things, once you get the hang of them.
The important thing about windmills is not their looks. I'm sure if anyone told you, Ian, that you were ugly, you might despondently agree, but protest that you had more important attributes than beauty. Windmills haven't got that. It doesn't matter if they kill eagles and interesting bats, and damage property values, and disturb radar returns, and make people sick with low frequency noise, and interfere with television reception, destroy more jobs than they create, produce more CO2 than cow f@rts, wrench up irreplaceable heathland - perhaps they do, and maybe they don't, and perhaps they’re ugly or maybe they’re not - but none of that matters because they're supposed to be an economically viable source of energy, and they just plain ain’t.
If they worked, then we might have to decide how we felt about them swatting the carcases of rare species past our heads all day, but they don’t work, so that debate isn’t necessary. If we want energy from windmills we should make them out of wood – then we can burn them to keep warm when the nights draw in.
You hear no answers? Listen: tidal flow; HEP; reduced consumption. We’re going to get stuck with the last one anyway.
"I hear no answers."
That's because you're not listening. You could try doing a bit of research - you know - read the odd book or something. Here's a radical thought: dismantle that MFI hostess bar with genuine gilt-plated taps and matching trim at the end of your living room, and install a bookcase. They're truly wonderful things, once you get the hang of them.
The important thing about windmills is not their looks. I'm sure if anyone told you, Ian, that you were ugly, you might despondently agree, but protest that you had more important attributes than beauty. Windmills haven't got that. It doesn't matter if they kill eagles and interesting bats, and damage property values, and disturb radar returns, and make people sick with low frequency noise, and interfere with television reception, destroy more jobs than they create, produce more CO2 than cow f@rts, wrench up irreplaceable heathland - perhaps they do, and maybe they don't, and perhaps they’re ugly or maybe they’re not - but none of that matters because they're supposed to be an economically viable source of energy, and they just plain ain’t.
If they worked, then we might have to decide how we felt about them swatting the carcases of rare species past our heads all day, but they don’t work, so that debate isn’t necessary. If we want energy from windmills we should make them out of wood – then we can burn them to keep warm when the nights draw in.
You hear no answers? Listen: tidal flow; HEP; reduced consumption. We’re going to get stuck with the last one anyway.
Posted by: Adam Ramsay, Edinburgh on 8:29pm Sun 27 Apr 08
To those of you who complain about intermittence, you are, basically, wrong. Here's why:
There are two kinds of power, baseload, and reserve (or back up). Think of a graph of demand for electricity going up and down over time. Then imagine a line for supply. This too will go up and down over time. This line is baseload. All baseload electricity sources fluctuate - Nuclear power station often have to be shut down, at a moment's notice, for safety reasons (for example).
When demand outstrips supply, backup comes into play. This is either gas, or Hydro - something where you can turn a knob, and release electricity immediately.
Wind is a form of baseload, and it is just as good as any other. In fact, because it is dispersed, it is, arguably, better than nuclear. If one nuclear power station goes down, you lose a huge amount of power at once. There is almost always wind somewhere in the UK.
It is true that wind can't supply back up, but this isn't a huge problem - Denmark has more than 20% wind power, and has no problems with this scale at all. This is especially the case with the European supergrid, where we can sell electricity across the continent when the wind blows here, and buy it from Germany when we need to. As long as you have some form of backup there, you are fine. And yes, you can shut down coal power stations - coal is not very good as backup, as it takes time to shovel. Wind is perfectly viable as a relatively large part of our electricity make up.
To those of you who complain about intermittence, you are, basically, wrong. Here's why:
There are two kinds of power, baseload, and reserve (or back up). Think of a graph of demand for electricity going up and down over time. Then imagine a line for supply. This too will go up and down over time. This line is baseload. All baseload electricity sources fluctuate - Nuclear power station often have to be shut down, at a moment's notice, for safety reasons (for example).
When demand outstrips supply, backup comes into play. This is either gas, or Hydro - something where you can turn a knob, and release electricity immediately.
Wind is a form of baseload, and it is just as good as any other. In fact, because it is dispersed, it is, arguably, better than nuclear. If one nuclear power station goes down, you lose a huge amount of power at once. There is almost always wind somewhere in the UK.
It is true that wind can't supply back up, but this isn't a huge problem - Denmark has more than 20% wind power, and has no problems with this scale at all. This is especially the case with the European supergrid, where we can sell electricity across the continent when the wind blows here, and buy it from Germany when we need to. As long as you have some form of backup there, you are fine. And yes, you can shut down coal power stations - coal is not very good as backup, as it takes time to shovel. Wind is perfectly viable as a relatively large part of our electricity make up.
Posted by: Adam Ramsay, Edinburgh on 8:30pm Sun 27 Apr 08
To those of you who complain about intermittence, you are, basically, wrong. Here's why:
There are two kinds of power, baseload, and reserve (or back up). Think of a graph of demand for electricity going up and down over time. Then imagine a line for supply. This too will go up and down over time. This line is baseload. All baseload electricity sources fluctuate - Nuclear power station often have to be shut down, at a moment's notice, for safety reasons (for example).
When demand outstrips supply, backup comes into play. This is either gas, or Hydro - something where you can turn a knob, and release electricity immediately.
Wind is a form of baseload, and it is just as good as any other. In fact, because it is dispersed, it is, arguably, better than nuclear. If one nuclear power station goes down, you lose a huge amount of power at once. There is almost always wind somewhere in the UK.
It is true that wind can't supply back up, but this isn't a huge problem - Denmark has more than 20% wind power, and has no problems with this scale at all. This is especially the case with the European supergrid, where we can sell electricity across the continent when the wind blows here, and buy it from Germany when we need to. As long as you have some form of backup there, you are fine. And yes, you can shut down coal power stations - coal is not very good as backup, as it takes time to shovel. Wind is perfectly viable as a relatively large part of our electricity make up.
To those of you who complain about intermittence, you are, basically, wrong. Here's why:
There are two kinds of power, baseload, and reserve (or back up). Think of a graph of demand for electricity going up and down over time. Then imagine a line for supply. This too will go up and down over time. This line is baseload. All baseload electricity sources fluctuate - Nuclear power station often have to be shut down, at a moment's notice, for safety reasons (for example).
When demand outstrips supply, backup comes into play. This is either gas, or Hydro - something where you can turn a knob, and release electricity immediately.
Wind is a form of baseload, and it is just as good as any other. In fact, because it is dispersed, it is, arguably, better than nuclear. If one nuclear power station goes down, you lose a huge amount of power at once. There is almost always wind somewhere in the UK.
It is true that wind can't supply back up, but this isn't a huge problem - Denmark has more than 20% wind power, and has no problems with this scale at all. This is especially the case with the European supergrid, where we can sell electricity across the continent when the wind blows here, and buy it from Germany when we need to. As long as you have some form of backup there, you are fine. And yes, you can shut down coal power stations - coal is not very good as backup, as it takes time to shovel. Wind is perfectly viable as a relatively large part of our electricity make up.
Posted by: McNasty, Edinburgh on 7:02am Mon 28 Apr 08
Scots will one day realise how blessed we are with renew-ables and we all have to look at windmills with a certain pragmatism.
Technology can and will deliver solutions without resorting to a plutonium based economy which creates more problems than it resolves.
Scots will one day realise how blessed we are with renew-ables and we all have to look at windmills with a certain pragmatism.
Technology can and will deliver solutions without resorting to a plutonium based economy which creates more problems than it resolves.
Posted by: GML, right here on 10:18am Mon 28 Apr 08
I would like to see an opinion poll on the aesthetics of wind turbines. I rather like them, and I suspect that most people like them or are indifferent towards them. However, it is a long-established principle that a few objectors can make a disproportionate noise if they try hard enough, and this is Scotland's leading current example.
I remember a flurry of letters about the building of the Skye bridge; not the tolling regime but the design of the bridge. The letter writers universally cliamed that the simple concrete bridge was ugly and a scar on the landscape, and that a suspension bridge was obvioulsy nocer to look at. I remember thinking at the time that a universal calculus of aesthetics was not available to back up their claims (and subsequently I saw postcards and photos of the bridge proudly on sale at Kyle.)
Still no sign of a universal aesthetic calculus, I reckon.
I would like to see an opinion poll on the aesthetics of wind turbines. I rather like them, and I suspect that most people like them or are indifferent towards them. However, it is a long-established principle that a few objectors can make a disproportionate noise if they try hard enough, and this is Scotland's leading current example.
I remember a flurry of letters about the building of the Skye bridge; not the tolling regime but the design of the bridge. The letter writers universally cliamed that the simple concrete bridge was ugly and a scar on the landscape, and that a suspension bridge was obvioulsy nocer to look at. I remember thinking at the time that a universal calculus of aesthetics was not available to back up their claims (and subsequently I saw postcards and photos of the bridge proudly on sale at Kyle.)
Still no sign of a universal aesthetic calculus, I reckon.
Posted by: earthtracer, Angus on 2:32pm Mon 28 Apr 08
It is complete insanity to plaster one of our most precious resources, our landscape, with heavily-subsidised, rather inefficient, hill-top factories. I am all for utilising the wind's power but on an appropriate scale, i.e. small domestic machines - as many as you like! - and some community schemes of not more than a few turbines. One factory on one skyline may be attractive - but the way we are going, it will not be long before it is impossible to obtain a view from anywhere in the land that does not include a wind power station. The [italic]first[/italic] thing we should be doing is to [italic]reduce[/italic] our power consumption. The very last is to vandalise our beautiful landscape.
It is complete insanity to plaster one of our most precious resources, our landscape, with heavily-subsidised, rather inefficient, hill-top factories. I am all for utilising the wind's power but on an appropriate scale, i.e. small domestic machines - as many as you like! - and some community schemes of not more than a few turbines. One factory on one skyline may be attractive - but the way we are going, it will not be long before it is impossible to obtain a view from anywhere in the land that does not include a wind power station. The
first thing we should be doing is to
reduce our power consumption. The very last is to vandalise our beautiful landscape.
Posted by: TommyK60, Ayr on 2:36pm Mon 28 Apr 08
[quote]Wind is a form of baseload, and it is just as good as any other.[/quote]
Wind turbines can't be used as base load production as wind isn't reliable enough to allow this.
The only true alternates we should be looking at are hydro and tidal generation.
Wind is a form of baseload, and it is just as good as any other.
Wind turbines can't be used as base load production as wind isn't reliable enough to allow this.
The only true alternates we should be looking at are hydro and tidal generation.
Posted by: awh, Dumfries on 10:07am Tue 29 Apr 08
Adam Ramsay- a quick question what would be the energy loss of moving power backwards and forwards from Scotland to germany? Just curious.
California demonstrated a few years ago what happens if you don not maintain investment in distribution and production of electricity we need to make decisions now. It would help if the Electricity companies told us what the contribution of renewables actually is rather than their theoretical capacity- any one out there know?
Adam Ramsay- a quick question what would be the energy loss of moving power backwards and forwards from Scotland to germany? Just curious.
California demonstrated a few years ago what happens if you don not maintain investment in distribution and production of electricity we need to make decisions now. It would help if the Electricity companies told us what the contribution of renewables actually is rather than their theoretical capacity- any one out there know?
Posted by: awh, Dumfries on 10:20am Tue 29 Apr 08
A quick skirt through the internet maze leaves me none the wiser as to the real contribution renewables makes to Scotlands electricity generation. More worrying is that the lobbying group Scottish renewables estimate that renewables can form upto 40% as part of a mix of generation, and that away from electricity we still need to find a solution to heating and industrial uses and transport (currently around 80% of Scotlands energy needs). A pretty big problem. Which will take more than a few windmills to solve.
A quick skirt through the internet maze leaves me none the wiser as to the real contribution renewables makes to Scotlands electricity generation. More worrying is that the lobbying group Scottish renewables estimate that renewables can form upto 40% as part of a mix of generation, and that away from electricity we still need to find a solution to heating and industrial uses and transport (currently around 80% of Scotlands energy needs). A pretty big problem. Which will take more than a few windmills to solve.
Posted by: turpie, clydesdale on 5:39pm Tue 29 Apr 08
I have to say it again...from my earlier Comment....
"A quick rake-about on the web will turn up Dr. John Etherington's presentation on windfarm subsidies (It blows the windfarm business out of the park) or, nearer to home, A.R.Nelson's letter to the Editor in..... Herald, likewise."
On Hydro-electric power, we had surplus to export...and as far as I know there were no subsidies involved. I see wave power as the new Hydro-electric way and wish to hear from those who make the case for wind generation...Will you be so keen when the subsidy stops?
I have to say it again...from my earlier Comment....
"A quick rake-about on the web will turn up Dr. John Etherington's presentation on windfarm subsidies (It blows the windfarm business out of the park) or, nearer to home, A.R.Nelson's letter to the Editor in..... Herald, likewise."
On Hydro-electric power, we had surplus to export...and as far as I know there were no subsidies involved. I see wave power as the new Hydro-electric way and wish to hear from those who make the case for wind generation...Will you be so keen when the subsidy stops?
Posted by: andrew mackay on 11:22pm Tue 29 Apr 08
[quote]To those of you who complain about intermittence, you are, basically, wrong
[/quote]
No we are basically right - are you suggesting that you can plan intermittency. Regardless of how many intermittent sources you will always get coincident nulls - that means 100% fossil or nuclear backup
To those of you who complain about intermittence, you are, basically, wrong
No we are basically right - are you suggesting that you can plan intermittency. Regardless of how many intermittent sources you will always get coincident nulls - that means 100% fossil or nuclear backup