Patio heaters fuelling huge rise in carbon emissions
Scots who follow the fashion for patio heaters are fuelling rising carbon emissions, a leading energy watchdog has warned.
More than 160,000 households in Scotland own or plan to buy a heater for their garden, according to a survey by the Energy Savings Trust.
The devices will emit 7700 tonnes of carbon dioxide every year - equivalent to an average car driving from Glasgow to John O'Groats and back 43,000 times.
Consumers should "wear a jumper instead" said the trust, which is calling on the UK's garden centres, homeware and DIY stores to stop selling the heaters.
The average patio heater is used for only two months of the year but in that time emits as much CO2 as a gas hob uses in six months.
Yet ownership of patio heaters in Scotland is set
to more than double from 60,000 to 161,000, according to the trust's new Green Barometer report, which was based on a sample of 1192 households.
Mike Thornton, head of the Energy Saving Trust in Scotland, said: "We all know Scotland gets cold sometimes but why don't people just wear a jumper?
"While patio heaters are not by any means the most damaging appliance to the environment, ditching the patio heater is an easy way of cutting down on your home energy use."
He added: "We are calling on responsible retailers to reconsider the sale of patio heaters in light of the substantial amount of carbon emissions they produce."
According to the trust, the rise in popularity of heaters is partly fuelled by pubs, cafés and hotels which are installing them to help smokers keep warm.
About one in six (17%) of pub-goers who like to sit outside in Scotland choose pubs where there is a heater. Mr Thornton called on commercial operators to think twice before installing them.
He said: "Landlords are helping to make patio heaters desirable - which they are
not.
"Commercial heaters are larger than domestic patio heaters and used more often.
"With 5151 pubs, 2260 hotels, 1532 restaurants, the potential for growth in CO2 emissions from heaters used by the hospitality sector
compounds the domestic problem."
Pressure has been growing on retailers to withdraw heaters from their stores
since Easter, when Wyevale Garden Centres announced
it would no longer stock
them.
But yesterday, B&Q, one of the UK's biggest sellers of outdoor heaters, said they had no plans to stop selling them in their stores.
A spokeswoman said: "B&Q will continue to
sell outdoor heaters to customers who wish to purchase them, alongside our range
of outdoor fire pits and chimineas.
"We want to ensure that by providing the right information, our customers can make informed decisions; we do not dictate what customers buy and do at home.
"Our approach is to work with our suppliers to encourage them to continually improve the efficiency of the products we sell.
"B&Q's range of outdoor heaters includes adjustable heat settings as well as deeper hoods, both designed to improve the energy efficiency of the product."
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Posted by: Mister Tweedie, Leverndale on 4:30am Wed 25 Jul 07
How dare this Labour government dictate to us whether we can have patio heaters and chimineas in our garden gazebos? We bought our present home specifically to facilitate the al fresco dining experience in our garden. If we choose to put our hard earned money into a leisure based lifestyle with decking, and other home improvements so we can have barbecue in our gardens then that is none of the business of Gordon Brown's nanny state. If it wasn't a good thing, surely reputable companies such as B&Q wouldn't put so much time and effort into marketing these products. If it wasn't for them I wouldn't know what a chiminea was. We will not be dictated to by the global warming police into "wearing a jumper" when we have spent all this money on designer label polo shirts. It's political correctness gone mad.
How dare this Labour government dictate to us whether we can have patio heaters and chimineas in our garden gazebos? We bought our present home specifically to facilitate the al fresco dining experience in our garden. If we choose to put our hard earned money into a leisure based lifestyle with decking, and other home improvements so we can have barbecue in our gardens then that is none of the business of Gordon Brown's nanny state. If it wasn't a good thing, surely reputable companies such as B&Q wouldn't put so much time and effort into marketing these products. If it wasn't for them I wouldn't know what a chiminea was. We will not be dictated to by the global warming police into "wearing a jumper" when we have spent all this money on designer label polo shirts. It's political correctness gone mad.
Posted by: donald, glasgow on 7:13am Wed 25 Jul 07
Some people huvnae goat patios. Inf act some people huvane goat a Labour Queen.
Some people huvnae goat patios. Inf act some people huvane goat a Labour Queen.
Posted by: bert on 8:15am Wed 25 Jul 07
I can't be the only on who is sick of, day after day, having guilt for global warming laid on with a trowel. I'm absolutely scunnered with it and they can all just b*gger off! When they've got actual facts rather than computer models I might start to care again. I wish they'd all just bore off.
I can't be the only on who is sick of, day after day, having guilt for global warming laid on with a trowel. I'm absolutely scunnered with it and they can all just b*gger off! When they've got actual facts rather than computer models I might start to care again. I wish they'd all just bore off.
Posted by: ger, clydebank on 8:17am Wed 25 Jul 07
Clearly that smoking ban is going to be the death of us all.
Clearly that smoking ban is going to be the death of us all.
Posted by: Joseph, Ayr on 8:22am Wed 25 Jul 07
What we need to get rid of is people like Mr Thornton in his taxpayer-funded sinecure. Along with all the other climate-change busybodies most of whom skulk in non-jobs in the public sector.
What we need to get rid of is people like Mr Thornton in his taxpayer-funded sinecure. Along with all the other climate-change busybodies most of whom skulk in non-jobs in the public sector.
Posted by: Colin, Glasgow on 9:00am Wed 25 Jul 07
I have taken Mr Thorntons invaluable advice this summer and used my patio heater only on one single occasion. I hope he is happy with this and will commend me for an award for saving the earth.
p.s. use of my patio heater has also been curtailed by the fact that its been p***ing down all summer.
I have taken Mr Thorntons invaluable advice this summer and used my patio heater only on one single occasion. I hope he is happy with this and will commend me for an award for saving the earth.
p.s. use of my patio heater has also been curtailed by the fact that its been p***ing down all summer.
Posted by: Jimmy, Edinburgh on 9:04am Wed 25 Jul 07
Mr Tweedie, stop and think for a moment: "How dare...blah blah blah" Well, it's called addressing externalities so that you understand the cost to others of the benefit you receive. Your rant fails to consider the role of government in protecting the majority and is akin to something like: "How dare the government lecture us on driving on the left side of the road. I have spent lots of my hard-earned money on a big American truck but it's left-hand drive so I want to drive on the right," or "How dare the government tell me I should turn down my 1000Watt stereo that is keeping my neighbours awake. I have spent lots of my hard-earned money on that stereo so I should be able to play it whenever I like and as loud as I like." Oh, and by the way I didn't see any reference to the Labour government in the article anyway. Eejit.
Mr Tweedie, stop and think for a moment: "How dare...blah blah blah" Well, it's called addressing externalities so that you understand the cost to others of the benefit you receive. Your rant fails to consider the role of government in protecting the majority and is akin to something like: "How dare the government lecture us on driving on the left side of the road. I have spent lots of my hard-earned money on a big American truck but it's left-hand drive so I want to drive on the right," or "How dare the government tell me I should turn down my 1000Watt stereo that is keeping my neighbours awake. I have spent lots of my hard-earned money on that stereo so I should be able to play it whenever I like and as loud as I like." Oh, and by the way I didn't see any reference to the Labour government in the article anyway. Eejit.
Posted by: ptw, at home, with my patio heater... on 9:12am Wed 25 Jul 07
Don't you just love, and really listen to, all these health-food and sandal wearing middle-class fuds (usually wirh a funny accent) who try endlessly to browbeat the masjority of people into following their 'global warming' non-agenda? If I ever meet mr. thornton, I'll put my carbon footprint right up his srse...
Don't you just love, and really listen to, all these health-food and sandal wearing middle-class fuds (usually wirh a funny accent) who try endlessly to browbeat the masjority of people into following their 'global warming' non-agenda? If I ever meet mr. thornton, I'll put my carbon footprint right up his srse...
Posted by: Patty O'Heeter, Dobbies Garden Centre on 9:16am Wed 25 Jul 07
Hey Jimmy. Had a sense of humour failure? I think Mr Tweedies tongue may be firmly in his cheek. Are you sure who's the eejit?
Hey Jimmy. Had a sense of humour failure? I think Mr Tweedies tongue may be firmly in his cheek. Are you sure who's the eejit?
Posted by: Jimmy, Edinburgh on 9:42am Wed 25 Jul 07
"Patty," I hope so. Quite happy to be an eejit if that is the case - but there are plenty of nutters around (e.g. ptw) so I'm not convinced!
"Patty," I hope so. Quite happy to be an eejit if that is the case - but there are plenty of nutters around (e.g. ptw) so I'm not convinced!
Posted by: ptw, still at home, with my patio heater... on 9:46am Wed 25 Jul 07
Hey jimmy, go find a forest and spend the rest of your life hugging trees. You, and your ilk, will change nothing, other than people's attitudes to middle-class green-freaks. Even if patio heaters et al were banned, how would you enforce the banning the use of those already sitting on millions of patios? Another postulating non-thought-out proposal...
Hey jimmy, go find a forest and spend the rest of your life hugging trees. You, and your ilk, will change nothing, other than people's attitudes to middle-class green-freaks. Even if patio heaters et al were banned, how would you enforce the banning the use of those already sitting on millions of patios? Another postulating non-thought-out proposal...
Posted by: C U Jimmy, Errshur on 9:53am Wed 25 Jul 07
Check out the Mecca Bingo in Ayr, they have two external wall-mounted gas heaters to warm the large huddles of smoking , poor-looking mugs waiting to be parted from their giro cash.
Auld Ayr, wham ne'er a toon surpasses .....
Check out the Mecca Bingo in Ayr, they have two external wall-mounted gas heaters to warm the large huddles of smoking , poor-looking mugs waiting to be parted from their giro cash.
Auld Ayr, wham ne'er a toon surpasses .....
Posted by: Jack McC, Greater Pumpherston on 10:06am Wed 25 Jul 07
Lets all burn wood in our chimeras ...Bring back the bonfire and sit round singing songs we loved back when we were all cubs and brownies, playing in father's estate as the sun set on another long summer's day play. In areas where there are no patios to burn these terrible common patio burners we could place old oil drums as in America where singers gather to sing all the popular hits throughout the winter. If this caught on it could make the sink estates of Glasgow tourist attractions and help those poor people help themselves rather than relying on the state. this carbon neutral solution must be thought of and adopted by all. The knock on effects for our economy will be huge.
Lets all burn wood in our chimeras ...Bring back the bonfire and sit round singing songs we loved back when we were all cubs and brownies, playing in father's estate as the sun set on another long summer's day play. In areas where there are no patios to burn these terrible common patio burners we could place old oil drums as in America where singers gather to sing all the popular hits throughout the winter. If this caught on it could make the sink estates of Glasgow tourist attractions and help those poor people help themselves rather than relying on the state. this carbon neutral solution must be thought of and adopted by all. The knock on effects for our economy will be huge.
Posted by: JR, Glasgow on 10:13am Wed 25 Jul 07
Americans filling up their V8 SUV’s at 30p per litre, China building a new power station every week, 50,000 commercial flights occur everyday.
And in Scotland what concerns us….patio heaters!!
Americans filling up their V8 SUV’s at 30p per litre, China building a new power station every week, 50,000 commercial flights occur everyday.
And in Scotland what concerns us….patio heaters!!
Posted by: Rob Campbell on 11:01am Wed 25 Jul 07
Okay, okay, everyone loves to stand up and bellow about freedom to commit suicide; why not a thought for the rest of us who might just want to go on living?
How sad that each and every call for a little care is clouded by the smokescreen of the automatic response about nanny statehood. I live in Spain, and as many will have discovered on ill-advised winter sun visits, it gets pretty **** cold here too. Those cursed heaters are making a presence in establishments here as well and I can tell you this: if they have one beside the table I choose another cafe or restaurant.. PC? Not at all, far from it: - I simply hate the stench of unburned gasses.
Okay, okay, everyone loves to stand up and bellow about freedom to commit suicide; why not a thought for the rest of us who might just want to go on living?
How sad that each and every call for a little care is clouded by the smokescreen of the automatic response about nanny statehood. I live in Spain, and as many will have discovered on ill-advised winter sun visits, it gets pretty **** cold here too. Those cursed heaters are making a presence in establishments here as well and I can tell you this: if they have one beside the table I choose another cafe or restaurant.. PC? Not at all, far from it: - I simply hate the stench of unburned gasses.
Posted by: adingo8mybarbie, wired to the moon on 11:20am Wed 25 Jul 07
My wife also hates the smell of unburned gasses - but when they're not your own, they never do smell of roses.
My wife also hates the smell of unburned gasses - but when they're not your own, they never do smell of roses.
Posted by: Brian on 11:42am Wed 25 Jul 07
Outside space heaters have to be the ultimate in selfish stupidity - every time I see one either at a private home or a pub I conclude that the people using them are scum.
Outside space heaters have to be the ultimate in selfish stupidity - every time I see one either at a private home or a pub I conclude that the people using them are scum.
Posted by: Jimmy, Edinburgh on 11:58am Wed 25 Jul 07
ptw, I didn't see any reference to banning heaters in the article, did you? It's a bit like whether you leave your TV on standby, whether you drive to the shops or walk, etc - up to you at the end of the day, but might you just think before doing it? Is that too difficult for you?
ptw, I didn't see any reference to banning heaters in the article, did you? It's a bit like whether you leave your TV on standby, whether you drive to the shops or walk, etc - up to you at the end of the day, but might you just think before doing it? Is that too difficult for you?
Posted by: Brian on 12:30pm Wed 25 Jul 07
[quote][bold]adingo8mybarbie[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Brian[/bold] wrote: Outside space heaters have to be the ultimate in selfish stupidity - every time I see one either at a private home or a pub I conclude that the people using them are scum.[/quote] I usually try not to make such broad generalisations, but on this occassion I will indulge...... Every time I see people jumping to conclusions and assuming other people are "scum" without knowing anything about them, I assume that they themselves are uneducated ignorant w@nkers.[/quote] Dear Adingo8mybarbie,
I completely agree, jumping to conclusions about people without knowing anything about them is bad form (whether it means one is 1. uneducated, 2 ignorant (of what?) or 3. a masturbator I am not so sure).
I conclude that people who heat outdoor space are scum because I in fact do know something about them - that they heat outdoor space (or isn't that knowing something about them?).
Now, what have you got against masturbation? I am not sure if it is relavant to the story - perhaps it is not carbon neutral? Perhaps persons who self-identify as adingo8mybarbie have enought to worry about!
Hugs
Brian
adingo8mybarbie wrote:
Brian wrote: Outside space heaters have to be the ultimate in selfish stupidity - every time I see one either at a private home or a pub I conclude that the people using them are scum.
I usually try not to make such broad generalisations, but on this occassion I will indulge...... Every time I see people jumping to conclusions and assuming other people are "scum" without knowing anything about them, I assume that they themselves are uneducated ignorant w@nkers.
Dear Adingo8mybarbie,
I completely agree, jumping to conclusions about people without knowing anything about them is bad form (whether it means one is 1. uneducated, 2 ignorant (of what?) or 3. a masturbator I am not so sure).
I conclude that people who heat outdoor space are scum because I in fact do know something about them - that they heat outdoor space (or isn't that knowing something about them?).
Now, what have you got against masturbation? I am not sure if it is relavant to the story - perhaps it is not carbon neutral? Perhaps persons who self-identify as adingo8mybarbie have enought to worry about!
Hugs
Brian
Posted by: Melanthios on 12:37pm Wed 25 Jul 07
1 Do BBQs burn fossil fuels?
2 Have we to turn OFF the patio heaters, then go inside & put on the central heating?
I'm tempted to INCREASE "my carbon footprint." I also HATE this stupid term...that and "road maps" to peace. We're also hearing this crap in education, the health service and every other institution that thinks "road maps" are the clever buzz words. They're not. They are cr@p.
1 Do BBQs burn fossil fuels?
2 Have we to turn OFF the patio heaters, then go inside & put on the central heating?
I'm tempted to INCREASE "my carbon footprint." I also HATE this stupid term...that and "road maps" to peace. We're also hearing this crap in education, the health service and every other institution that thinks "road maps" are the clever buzz words. They're not. They are cr@p.
Posted by: Brian on 12:40pm Wed 25 Jul 07
ooooh, relevant!
Posted by: David, expatNI on 12:47pm Wed 25 Jul 07
The big problem is that since the smoking in enclosed places ban, smokers have taken to smoking outside. Surely this is also adding to global warming! I now go to my local, which is situated beside a nice bay with lovely views, and I can't sit outside because it is now the domain of all the smokers. Let us now ban smoking outdoors as well as indoors (and I'm NOT JOKING) Surely for every few hundred smokers we ban from outdoors, the rest of us can enjoy our patio heaters?
The big problem is that since the smoking in enclosed places ban, smokers have taken to smoking outside. Surely this is also adding to global warming! I now go to my local, which is situated beside a nice bay with lovely views, and I can't sit outside because it is now the domain of all the smokers. Let us now ban smoking outdoors as well as indoors (and I'm NOT JOKING) Surely for every few hundred smokers we ban from outdoors, the rest of us can enjoy our patio heaters?
Posted by: Rab Jones, Pollok on 12:48pm Wed 25 Jul 07
I woud love to use muy outside heater more often, buts its rains most of the time in Scotland.
People tend to forget that we use more emmissions in the UK because we are a cold country. Spain hardly use central heating, outside heating etc.
Over thousands of years, the earth warms up and it cools down (Ice age etc). I don't believe in global warming, I think global warming is a phenomenon created by governments to get more money out of us tax payers, eg, taxing flights and now talking about charging people if they haven't seperated their cans from the rest of their rubbish.
Don't forget, it wasn't that long ago we thought the world was flat and the moon was made of cheese, and don't get me started on witches.
We are a race with limited knowledge, there are many races outside of our universe who are thousands of years ahead of us. If huge countries like China and the USA don't care, why should a little island like ours bother?
If the government was that bothered about global warming, why charge £8 congestion charge, why not charge £50? Answer: Because at £8, people will still travel to the city by car and the government gets their money, at £50 no one would bother and the government would have to think up another hair brain scheme to rip us off.
I woud love to use muy outside heater more often, buts its rains most of the time in Scotland.
People tend to forget that we use more emmissions in the UK because we are a cold country. Spain hardly use central heating, outside heating etc.
Over thousands of years, the earth warms up and it cools down (Ice age etc). I don't believe in global warming, I think global warming is a phenomenon created by governments to get more money out of us tax payers, eg, taxing flights and now talking about charging people if they haven't seperated their cans from the rest of their rubbish.
Don't forget, it wasn't that long ago we thought the world was flat and the moon was made of cheese, and don't get me started on witches.
We are a race with limited knowledge, there are many races outside of our universe who are thousands of years ahead of us. If huge countries like China and the USA don't care, why should a little island like ours bother?
If the government was that bothered about global warming, why charge £8 congestion charge, why not charge £50? Answer: Because at £8, people will still travel to the city by car and the government gets their money, at £50 no one would bother and the government would have to think up another hair brain scheme to rip us off.
Posted by: Melanthios on 1:18pm Wed 25 Jul 07
[quote][bold]David[/bold] wrote:
The big problem is that since the smoking in enclosed places ban, smokers have taken to smoking outside. Surely this is also adding to global warming! I now go to my local, which is situated beside a nice bay with lovely views, and I can't sit outside because it is now the domain of all the smokers. Let us now ban smoking outdoors as well as indoors (and I'm NOT JOKING) Surely for every few hundred smokers we ban from outdoors, the rest of us can enjoy our patio heaters?[/quote] Shurely shome mishtake? Ban smoking in AND out? Please let you post be tongue in cheek.
;-)
David wrote:
The big problem is that since the smoking in enclosed places ban, smokers have taken to smoking outside. Surely this is also adding to global warming! I now go to my local, which is situated beside a nice bay with lovely views, and I can't sit outside because it is now the domain of all the smokers. Let us now ban smoking outdoors as well as indoors (and I'm NOT JOKING) Surely for every few hundred smokers we ban from outdoors, the rest of us can enjoy our patio heaters?
Shurely shome mishtake? Ban smoking in AND out? Please let you post be tongue in cheek.
;-)
Posted by: Alastair on 1:21pm Wed 25 Jul 07
Rab, I am interested by the concept of races living outside our universe. Admit it, you're a Time Lord, aren't you.
I am open minded about climate change - it does seem to be warming up a bit on average over the whole planet. Where I am seriously sceptical is the assertion, almost to the point where it is accepted as fact, that humans are the cause. The Earth has been far warmer in the past (I believe that about 120,000 years ago, the Earth was about 5 degrees warmer according to one scientific paper quoted in an article in the paers recently. Something to do with the Greenland ice cap having remained frozen at that time. Now, if that was the case, what caused it and why is that not the same cause as at present?
Couple that to the ignorance of science exhibited by most politicians (mainly lawyers, trade union officials, tnat sort of thing) and I think you have a lot of the explanation - they see it primarily as an excuse for a) taxation and b) control. Oh, and I see the hole in the ozone layer appears to have vanished. The earth does seem to be self-healing to some extent.
I wonder how much global warming is caused by the various wars going on in Iraq and elsewhere?
Rab, I am interested by the concept of races living outside our universe. Admit it, you're a Time Lord, aren't you.
I am open minded about climate change - it does seem to be warming up a bit on average over the whole planet. Where I am seriously sceptical is the assertion, almost to the point where it is accepted as fact, that humans are the cause. The Earth has been far warmer in the past (I believe that about 120,000 years ago, the Earth was about 5 degrees warmer according to one scientific paper quoted in an article in the paers recently. Something to do with the Greenland ice cap having remained frozen at that time. Now, if that was the case, what caused it and why is that not the same cause as at present?
Couple that to the ignorance of science exhibited by most politicians (mainly lawyers, trade union officials, tnat sort of thing) and I think you have a lot of the explanation - they see it primarily as an excuse for a) taxation and b) control. Oh, and I see the hole in the ozone layer appears to have vanished. The earth does seem to be self-healing to some extent.
I wonder how much global warming is caused by the various wars going on in Iraq and elsewhere?
Posted by: Economic Migrant, Oxfordshire on Sea on 1:38pm Wed 25 Jul 07
[quote]Oh, and I see the hole in the ozone layer appears to have vanished. The earth does seem to be self-healing to some extent.[/quote]
The hole in the ozone layer hasn't vanished, it will take the next 50 years to return to normal. The reason it has started to heal is we stopped making the chemicals that caused the hole in the first place.
Oh, and I see the hole in the ozone layer appears to have vanished. The earth does seem to be self-healing to some extent.
The hole in the ozone layer hasn't vanished, it will take the next 50 years to return to normal. The reason it has started to heal is we stopped making the chemicals that caused the hole in the first place.
Posted by: David, expatNI on 1:45pm Wed 25 Jul 07
[quote][bold]Melanthios[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]David[/bold] wrote: The big problem is that since the smoking in enclosed places ban, smokers have taken to smoking outside. Surely this is also adding to global warming! I now go to my local, which is situated beside a nice bay with lovely views, and I can't sit outside because it is now the domain of all the smokers. Let us now ban smoking outdoors as well as indoors (and I'm NOT JOKING) Surely for every few hundred smokers we ban from outdoors, the rest of us can enjoy our patio heaters?[/quote] Shurely shome mishtake? Ban smoking in AND out? Please let you post be tongue in cheek. ;-)[/quote] No. No mistake. I think the '(and I'm NOT JOKING)' was the clue there.
Melanthios wrote:
David wrote: The big problem is that since the smoking in enclosed places ban, smokers have taken to smoking outside. Surely this is also adding to global warming! I now go to my local, which is situated beside a nice bay with lovely views, and I can't sit outside because it is now the domain of all the smokers. Let us now ban smoking outdoors as well as indoors (and I'm NOT JOKING) Surely for every few hundred smokers we ban from outdoors, the rest of us can enjoy our patio heaters?
Shurely shome mishtake? Ban smoking in AND out? Please let you post be tongue in cheek. ;-)
No. No mistake. I think the '(and I'm NOT JOKING)' was the clue there.
Posted by: Rab Jones, Pollok on 2:06pm Wed 25 Jul 07
[quote][bold]Alastair[/bold] wrote:
Rab, I am interested by the concept of races living outside our universe. Admit it, you\'re a Time Lord, aren\'t you. I am open minded about climate change - it does seem to be warming up a bit on average over the whole planet. Where I am seriously sceptical is the assertion, almost to the point where it is accepted as fact, that humans are the cause. The Earth has been far warmer in the past (I believe that about 120,000 years ago, the Earth was about 5 degrees warmer according to one scientific paper quoted in an article in the paers recently. Something to do with the Greenland ice cap having remained frozen at that time. Now, if that was the case, what caused it and why is that not the same cause as at present? Couple that to the ignorance of science exhibited by most politicians (mainly lawyers, trade union officials, tnat sort of thing) and I think you have a lot of the explanation - they see it primarily as an excuse for a) taxation and b) control. Oh, and I see the hole in the ozone layer appears to have vanished. The earth does seem to be self-healing to some extent. I wonder how much global warming is caused by the various wars going on in Iraq and elsewhere?[/quote] I hope they've been using eco-friebdly missiles on target in Iraq and Afghanistan Alastair. But you're right abouitthe control theory. We even are told now what to say. That word is offensive, and this word is offensive.
I've had enough, so I'm off to Spain next year, at least I can say what i want. So:
Hijos de Putas, tu madre. Voy a salir el anos que viene. Come mierda.
Alastair wrote:
Rab, I am interested by the concept of races living outside our universe. Admit it, you\'re a Time Lord, aren\'t you. I am open minded about climate change - it does seem to be warming up a bit on average over the whole planet. Where I am seriously sceptical is the assertion, almost to the point where it is accepted as fact, that humans are the cause. The Earth has been far warmer in the past (I believe that about 120,000 years ago, the Earth was about 5 degrees warmer according to one scientific paper quoted in an article in the paers recently. Something to do with the Greenland ice cap having remained frozen at that time. Now, if that was the case, what caused it and why is that not the same cause as at present? Couple that to the ignorance of science exhibited by most politicians (mainly lawyers, trade union officials, tnat sort of thing) and I think you have a lot of the explanation - they see it primarily as an excuse for a) taxation and b) control. Oh, and I see the hole in the ozone layer appears to have vanished. The earth does seem to be self-healing to some extent. I wonder how much global warming is caused by the various wars going on in Iraq and elsewhere?
I hope they've been using eco-friebdly missiles on target in Iraq and Afghanistan Alastair. But you're right abouitthe control theory. We even are told now what to say. That word is offensive, and this word is offensive.
I've had enough, so I'm off to Spain next year, at least I can say what i want. So:
Hijos de Putas, tu madre. Voy a salir el anos que viene. Come mierda.
Posted by: stonehaven on 2:54pm Wed 25 Jul 07
Jimmy 9:04am
So are you for or against patio heaters?
(Note to self : I can hardly believe that we are sitting here discussing feckin patio heaters!)
Jimmy 9:04am
So are you for or against patio heaters?
(Note to self : I can hardly believe that we are sitting here discussing feckin patio heaters!)
Posted by: stonehaven on 2:55pm Wed 25 Jul 07
How come this Mike Thornton fool is getting so much air-time?
How come this Mike Thornton fool is getting so much air-time?
Posted by: Rob, Glasgow on 2:57pm Wed 25 Jul 07
Rab Jones, I hope you enjoy Spain and find out if you can really do and say what you want. I'm sure you'll find them very progressive and open-minded. Oh, and I hope that your patio air conditioner out there is prohibitively expensive to run.
Rab Jones, I hope you enjoy Spain and find out if you can really do and say what you want. I'm sure you'll find them very progressive and open-minded. Oh, and I hope that your patio air conditioner out there is prohibitively expensive to run.
Posted by: stonehaven on 2:57pm Wed 25 Jul 07
To quote Thornton:
"We all know Scotland gets cold sometimes but why don't people just wear a jumper" - Idiot
And then this:
"While patio heaters are not by any means the most damaging appliance to the environment, ditching the patio heater is an easy way of cutting down on your home energy use."
So what appliance is MORE damaging because I'm going out to buy one!
To quote Thornton:
"We all know Scotland gets cold sometimes but why don't people just wear a jumper" - Idiot
And then this:
"While patio heaters are not by any means the most damaging appliance to the environment, ditching the patio heater is an easy way of cutting down on your home energy use."
So what appliance is MORE damaging because I'm going out to buy one!
Posted by: stonehaven on 3:03pm Wed 25 Jul 07
Brian 11:42am
Time for your medication I suspect...
Brian 11:42am
Time for your medication I suspect...
Posted by: stonehaven on 3:04pm Wed 25 Jul 07
adingo 11:58am
Priceless!
adingo 11:58am
Priceless!
Posted by: stonehaven on 3:14pm Wed 25 Jul 07
Brian 12:30pm
Where your argument falls down is that it is inevitable that something you do or own will be frowned upon by others, me included. For example, do you drive a car? If you drive a car do you do a lot of miles with no passengers. Do you go on holiday abroad? Do you fly? Do you own a feckin foot-spa? Do you own a dishwasher? Do you ever take a bath rather than a shower? Do you own a 1000W stereo? Do you shop exclusively at local shops? Do you walk to them? Do you use lots of carrier bags? etc etc.
So, Brian, in the certain knowledge that you will answer yes to one or more of the above questions, I can safely ignore your objections to patio heaters and label you "scum" in the process.
Brian 12:30pm
Where your argument falls down is that it is inevitable that something you do or own will be frowned upon by others, me included. For example, do you drive a car? If you drive a car do you do a lot of miles with no passengers. Do you go on holiday abroad? Do you fly? Do you own a feckin foot-spa? Do you own a dishwasher? Do you ever take a bath rather than a shower? Do you own a 1000W stereo? Do you shop exclusively at local shops? Do you walk to them? Do you use lots of carrier bags? etc etc.
So, Brian, in the certain knowledge that you will answer yes to one or more of the above questions, I can safely ignore your objections to patio heaters and label you "scum" in the process.
Posted by: stonehaven on 3:21pm Wed 25 Jul 07
economic migrant 1:38pm
I'm not even convinced there actually was a hole (or thinning) of the ozone layer in the first place. I refer to man-made thinning incidently.
Science is sometimes used to scare us for political reasons and is not really science. Sometimes its lies, others times its gross exaggeration.
economic migrant 1:38pm
I'm not even convinced there actually was a hole (or thinning) of the ozone layer in the first place. I refer to man-made thinning incidently.
Science is sometimes used to scare us for political reasons and is not really science. Sometimes its lies, others times its gross exaggeration.
Posted by: stonehaven on 3:23pm Wed 25 Jul 07
David 1:45pm
Please stay ex-patriated with views like that. Thanks.
David 1:45pm
Please stay ex-patriated with views like that. Thanks.
Posted by: Melanthios on 3:48pm Wed 25 Jul 07
[quote][bold]David[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Melanthios[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]David[/bold] wrote: The big problem is that since the smoking in enclosed places ban, smokers have taken to smoking outside. Surely this is also adding to global warming! I now go to my local, which is situated beside a nice bay with lovely views, and I can\'t sit outside because it is now the domain of all the smokers. Let us now ban smoking outdoors as well as indoors (and I\'m NOT JOKING) Surely for every few hundred smokers we ban from outdoors, the rest of us can enjoy our patio heaters?[/quote] Shurely shome mishtake? Ban smoking in AND out? Please let you post be tongue in cheek. ;-)[/quote] No. No mistake. I think the \'(and I\'m NOT JOKING)\' was the clue there. [/quote] Sadly, I thought that was the case......another "ban it 'cos I don't like it."
What next for the ban? Drinking outdoors? It gives people the wrong impression...and I'M NOT JOKING.
David wrote:
Melanthios wrote:
David wrote: The big problem is that since the smoking in enclosed places ban, smokers have taken to smoking outside. Surely this is also adding to global warming! I now go to my local, which is situated beside a nice bay with lovely views, and I can\'t sit outside because it is now the domain of all the smokers. Let us now ban smoking outdoors as well as indoors (and I\'m NOT JOKING) Surely for every few hundred smokers we ban from outdoors, the rest of us can enjoy our patio heaters?
Shurely shome mishtake? Ban smoking in AND out? Please let you post be tongue in cheek. ;-)
No. No mistake. I think the \'(and I\'m NOT JOKING)\' was the clue there.
Sadly, I thought that was the case......another "ban it 'cos I don't like it."
What next for the ban? Drinking outdoors? It gives people the wrong impression...and I'M NOT JOKING.
Posted by: Melanthios on 3:50pm Wed 25 Jul 07
RAB JONES
Where aboots are ye goin'?
¿a donde vas?
RAB JONES
Where aboots are ye goin'?
¿a donde vas?
Posted by: david el escocés, Málaga on 3:58pm Wed 25 Jul 07
by Rob, Glasgow 2:57 said "Oh, and I hope that your patio air conditioner out there is prohibitively expensive to run."
Actually they're not. You get roughly 4 times output with air-con. In other words, for about 2.5kw, you can heat 4 rooms in the winter & cool 4 rooms in the summer. Electric is currently about 10cents per kilowatt hour. Actually a **** good buy!
;-)
by Rob, Glasgow 2:57 said "Oh, and I hope that your patio air conditioner out there is prohibitively expensive to run."
Actually they're not. You get roughly 4 times output with air-con. In other words, for about 2.5kw, you can heat 4 rooms in the winter & cool 4 rooms in the summer. Electric is currently about 10cents per kilowatt hour. Actually a **** good buy!
;-)
Posted by: David, expatNI on 4:07pm Wed 25 Jul 07
Brought up in a house full of smokers. Three family members dead in the last two years directly to smoking related diseases (including my mother) Twenty one years in the fire service with countless fires and fire deaths due directly to 'carelessly discarded smoking materials'. The sight of a 64 year old woman who fell asleep in her favourite chair while smoking really spoiled a Christmas eve night-shift in 1988. My thirteen year old daughter talked into taking up the habit because 'it's cool and the SMOKING KILLS doesn't apply to children who only smoke 5 a day'. Certainly wasn't me who talked her into it,,, must have been another sellfish, stinking smoker. No. I don't like it.
Brought up in a house full of smokers. Three family members dead in the last two years directly to smoking related diseases (including my mother) Twenty one years in the fire service with countless fires and fire deaths due directly to 'carelessly discarded smoking materials'. The sight of a 64 year old woman who fell asleep in her favourite chair while smoking really spoiled a Christmas eve night-shift in 1988. My thirteen year old daughter talked into taking up the habit because 'it's cool and the SMOKING KILLS doesn't apply to children who only smoke 5 a day'. Certainly wasn't me who talked her into it,,, must have been another sellfish, stinking smoker. No. I don't like it.
Posted by: David, expatNI on 4:22pm Wed 25 Jul 07
Melantios, I'm all for drinking outdoors, as long as it's in the fresh air. I drink outdoors and I think the only anti-social thing I do, apart from enjoy the warmth of the patio heater (I'm thinking of buying one of those chimera/chimney things for the decking) is tell a few corny jokes when I've had a few. I don't throw the remains of my drink on to the ground, as smokers do with their butts, and expect someone to pick it up after me. And, I don't fill the air with toxic, foul smelling gas.
Melantios, I'm all for drinking outdoors, as long as it's in the fresh air. I drink outdoors and I think the only anti-social thing I do, apart from enjoy the warmth of the patio heater (I'm thinking of buying one of those chimera/chimney things for the decking) is tell a few corny jokes when I've had a few. I don't throw the remains of my drink on to the ground, as smokers do with their butts, and expect someone to pick it up after me. And, I don't fill the air with toxic, foul smelling gas.
Posted by: Melanthios on 4:22pm Wed 25 Jul 07
[quote][bold]David[/bold] wrote:
Brought up in a house full of smokers. Three family members dead in the last two years directly to smoking related diseases (including my mother) Twenty one years in the fire service with countless fires and fire deaths due directly to \'carelessly discarded smoking materials\'. The sight of a 64 year old woman who fell asleep in her favourite chair while smoking really spoiled a Christmas eve night-shift in 1988. My thirteen year old daughter talked into taking up the habit because \'it\'s cool and the SMOKING KILLS doesn\'t apply to children who only smoke 5 a day\'. Certainly wasn\'t me who talked her into it,,, must have been another sellfish, stinking smoker. No. I don\'t like it.[/quote] OK Dave. I fully understand your point and accept why you feel that way. Sorry about your horrendous experiences.
For my part, I just don't like the way everything is being either taxed to the hilt, banned, frowned upon, etc.
...AND FOR ALL YOU KIDS OUT THERE...DON'T START, IT'S CRAZY AND EXPENSIVE!
David wrote:
Brought up in a house full of smokers. Three family members dead in the last two years directly to smoking related diseases (including my mother) Twenty one years in the fire service with countless fires and fire deaths due directly to \'carelessly discarded smoking materials\'. The sight of a 64 year old woman who fell asleep in her favourite chair while smoking really spoiled a Christmas eve night-shift in 1988. My thirteen year old daughter talked into taking up the habit because \'it\'s cool and the SMOKING KILLS doesn\'t apply to children who only smoke 5 a day\'. Certainly wasn\'t me who talked her into it,,, must have been another sellfish, stinking smoker. No. I don\'t like it.
OK Dave. I fully understand your point and accept why you feel that way. Sorry about your horrendous experiences.
For my part, I just don't like the way everything is being either taxed to the hilt, banned, frowned upon, etc.
...AND FOR ALL YOU KIDS OUT THERE...DON'T START, IT'S CRAZY AND EXPENSIVE!
Posted by: David, expatNI on 4:28pm Wed 25 Jul 07
Melanthios, As someone said above, why are we sitting here discussing patio heaters? You'd think we had no work to be getting on with! And I AM NOT JOKING...I really am considering buying one of those chimera/chimney things for my decking....just as soon as it stops pi**ing down! Enjoy your vices while you can...... just blow it in the opposite direction from me ;-)
Melanthios, As someone said above, why are we sitting here discussing patio heaters? You'd think we had no work to be getting on with! And I AM NOT JOKING...I really am considering buying one of those chimera/chimney things for my decking....just as soon as it stops pi**ing down! Enjoy your vices while you can...... just blow it in the opposite direction from me ;-)
Posted by: Brian on 4:49pm Wed 25 Jul 07
[quote][bold]stonehaven[/bold] wrote:
Brian 11:42am Time for your medication I suspect...[/quote] Why this mental-illhealth jibe? You clearly have somethign to fear which you turn into hostility - the See Me campaign is trying to get people like you to overcome your bigotry.
stonehaven wrote:
Brian 11:42am Time for your medication I suspect...
Why this mental-illhealth jibe? You clearly have somethign to fear which you turn into hostility - the See Me campaign is trying to get people like you to overcome your bigotry.
Posted by: Brian on 7:27pm Wed 25 Jul 07
[quote][bold]stonehaven[/bold] wrote:
Brian 12:30pm Where your argument falls down is that it is inevitable that something you do or own will be frowned upon by others, me included. For example, do you drive a car? If you drive a car do you do a lot of miles with no passengers. Do you go on holiday abroad? Do you fly? Do you own a feckin foot-spa? Do you own a dishwasher? Do you ever take a bath rather than a shower? Do you own a 1000W stereo? Do you shop exclusively at local shops? Do you walk to them? Do you use lots of carrier bags? etc etc. So, Brian, in the certain knowledge that you will answer yes to one or more of the above questions, I can safely ignore your objections to patio heaters and label you "scum" in the process.[/quote] I didn't provide an argument - I made a statement. The fact that you cannot distinguish statement from argument merely confirms the level of authority people should attribute to your comments.
Oh, and the questions you pose are not very well thought through. You set up most of the questions so that a "yes" answer would suggest the person contributes to carbon emissions - but you have also asked a couple of questions where "yes" would signify avoiding unnecessary emissions (eg walking to local shops) - doh! The question thing was a nice idea but you just didn't have the capacity to get it right.
Other than completely misunderstanding what others write and making a mess of the questions you chose to pose you did really quite well, but you'll forgive me if I am somewhat underwhelmed.
stonehaven wrote:
Brian 12:30pm Where your argument falls down is that it is inevitable that something you do or own will be frowned upon by others, me included. For example, do you drive a car? If you drive a car do you do a lot of miles with no passengers. Do you go on holiday abroad? Do you fly? Do you own a feckin foot-spa? Do you own a dishwasher? Do you ever take a bath rather than a shower? Do you own a 1000W stereo? Do you shop exclusively at local shops? Do you walk to them? Do you use lots of carrier bags? etc etc. So, Brian, in the certain knowledge that you will answer yes to one or more of the above questions, I can safely ignore your objections to patio heaters and label you "scum" in the process.
I didn't provide an argument - I made a statement. The fact that you cannot distinguish statement from argument merely confirms the level of authority people should attribute to your comments.
Oh, and the questions you pose are not very well thought through. You set up most of the questions so that a "yes" answer would suggest the person contributes to carbon emissions - but you have also asked a couple of questions where "yes" would signify avoiding unnecessary emissions (eg walking to local shops) - doh! The question thing was a nice idea but you just didn't have the capacity to get it right.
Other than completely misunderstanding what others write and making a mess of the questions you chose to pose you did really quite well, but you'll forgive me if I am somewhat underwhelmed.
Posted by: The traveller on 8:03pm Wed 25 Jul 07
[quote]Hijos de Putas, tu madre. Voy a salir el anos que viene. Come mierda.[/quote]
After saying hijos de putas, there is no point in saying your mother... 1. you have already stated that someone is a son of a b*tch... son of a b*tch, your mother... can't say I've heard that phrase followed by your mother here in Colombia I think it's a given that it insults you and your mother.
2. if you are saying hijos de putas, that is plural. Tu madre is singular... dosn't work.
And no I will not eat faeces.
Hijos de Putas, tu madre. Voy a salir el anos que viene. Come mierda.
After saying hijos de putas, there is no point in saying your mother... 1. you have already stated that someone is a son of a b*tch... son of a b*tch, your mother... can't say I've heard that phrase followed by your mother here in Colombia I think it's a given that it insults you and your mother.
2. if you are saying hijos de putas, that is plural. Tu madre is singular... dosn't work.
And no I will not eat faeces.
Posted by: Gr8 on 8:08pm Wed 25 Jul 07
I'm still waiting for "global warming" (which isn't man made by the way it was 4 degrees hotter than now in the days of the Romans) to suddenly be caused by Al Qaeda... you know it's coming... Osama has bought 60000 patio heaters and has them running all day! That's why they need longer detention to find out how big the terrorists carbon footprint is and if they've been releasing excess CO2 recently.
I'm still waiting for "global warming" (which isn't man made by the way it was 4 degrees hotter than now in the days of the Romans) to suddenly be caused by Al Qaeda... you know it's coming... Osama has bought 60000 patio heaters and has them running all day! That's why they need longer detention to find out how big the terrorists carbon footprint is and if they've been releasing excess CO2 recently.
Posted by: peter.t, glsagow on 8:29pm Wed 25 Jul 07
why are we listening to gov this is global tax not worming woman on news in oxford said she was flooded 60yrs years ago the price we pay for building on flood plains maybe we should local charge planners for getting it wrong
why are we listening to gov this is global tax not worming woman on news in oxford said she was flooded 60yrs years ago the price we pay for building on flood plains maybe we should local charge planners for getting it wrong
Posted by: Betty Uttley, overseas on 9:31pm Wed 25 Jul 07
I do believe that smokers have the same rights as non-smokers. If non-smokers do not like the smoke, then let them stay away from where ever the smoking is going on.
I am a non-smoker, but if I do not like the smoke then I stay away from it.
Oh! I just wondered if the government had decided to say that your patio heater was putting out too many emissions, so that the people will not notice that the taxes on the cigarettes went skyhigh. That is the kind of thing that they do here, right at the the moment Bushie is lying to us about "we are winning in Iraq" but the newspapers have found out that he wants billions of dollars to give to Iraq.
We are getting awfully tired of this man, the doctors checked the wrong end when he went for a check up, they should have checked his head as his brain is non existant it was also said in the papers, "that if only Laura and his dog love him," he is still going to keep all those lads in that country and at war.
Thank you.
I do believe that smokers have the same rights as non-smokers. If non-smokers do not like the smoke, then let them stay away from where ever the smoking is going on.
I am a non-smoker, but if I do not like the smoke then I stay away from it.
Oh! I just wondered if the government had decided to say that your patio heater was putting out too many emissions, so that the people will not notice that the taxes on the cigarettes went skyhigh. That is the kind of thing that they do here, right at the the moment Bushie is lying to us about "we are winning in Iraq" but the newspapers have found out that he wants billions of dollars to give to Iraq.
We are getting awfully tired of this man, the doctors checked the wrong end when he went for a check up, they should have checked his head as his brain is non existant it was also said in the papers, "that if only Laura and his dog love him," he is still going to keep all those lads in that country and at war.
Thank you.
Posted by: david el escocés on 9:44pm Wed 25 Jul 07
[quote][bold]The traveller[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Hijos de Putas, tu madre. Voy a salir el anos que viene. Come mierda.[/quote]
After saying hijos de putas, there is no point in saying your mother... 1. you have already stated that someone is a son of a b*tch... son of a b*tch, your mother... can\'t say I\'ve heard that phrase followed by your mother here in Colombia I think it\'s a given that it insults you and your mother.
2. if you are saying hijos de putas, that is plural. Tu madre is singular... dosn\'t work.
And no I will not eat faeces.[/quote] .
The traveller wrote:
Hijos de Putas, tu madre. Voy a salir el anos que viene. Come mierda.
After saying hijos de putas, there is no point in saying your mother... 1. you have already stated that someone is a son of a b*tch... son of a b*tch, your mother... can\'t say I\'ve heard that phrase followed by your mother here in Colombia I think it\'s a given that it insults you and your mother.
2. if you are saying hijos de putas, that is plural. Tu madre is singular... dosn\'t work.
And no I will not eat faeces.
.
Posted by: david el escocés, Málaga on 9:56pm Wed 25 Jul 07
Heaven knows what happened there (9:44pm).
RAB - You won't like Spain. I've been here now full time since April 2004. Cigarettes are terribly cheap (€2.15 a packet), beer in a bar is about €1.00 (68p) and wine about the same. You could always (if you wanted to save money) buy wine and drink it in the house. Cartons (people frown on it, but just think UK wine boxes) are 30 pence a litre. A really good wine might set you back about €2.00. Menus of the day including a drink, from about €7.00. 320 days of sunshine can be a bit of an annoyance., but the rain's nice in April & October. House prices? Don't live in an exhorbitantly priced flat (unless you are prepared to spend about 500 pounds a year for community fees). Then again this includes a communal swimming pool, gardner, etc. No Rab...better to go about 10 miles inland and buy a 4 bedroomed house (fully renovated) with 5000 sq metres, garage for 4 cars & a paddock - in case you want to offer horse-riding holidays or something. This is currently on offer at €80,000 (after all taxes - 60,000 pounds). Y'know something. Sell the UK house - buy a house in Spain - put the change in the Nationwide (5% net for e-savings), and use the Nationwide card to withdraw money (no charges). Yes James...stay in the UK. Life is HELL here!
Heaven knows what happened there (9:44pm).
RAB - You won't like Spain. I've been here now full time since April 2004. Cigarettes are terribly cheap (€2.15 a packet), beer in a bar is about €1.00 (68p) and wine about the same. You could always (if you wanted to save money) buy wine and drink it in the house. Cartons (people frown on it, but just think UK wine boxes) are 30 pence a litre. A really good wine might set you back about €2.00. Menus of the day including a drink, from about €7.00. 320 days of sunshine can be a bit of an annoyance., but the rain's nice in April & October. House prices? Don't live in an exhorbitantly priced flat (unless you are prepared to spend about 500 pounds a year for community fees). Then again this includes a communal swimming pool, gardner, etc. No Rab...better to go about 10 miles inland and buy a 4 bedroomed house (fully renovated) with 5000 sq metres, garage for 4 cars & a paddock - in case you want to offer horse-riding holidays or something. This is currently on offer at €80,000 (after all taxes - 60,000 pounds). Y'know something. Sell the UK house - buy a house in Spain - put the change in the Nationwide (5% net for e-savings), and use the Nationwide card to withdraw money (no charges). Yes James...stay in the UK. Life is HELL here!
Posted by: michelle, USA on 6:21pm Thu 26 Jul 07
[quote][bold]bert[/bold] wrote:
I can't be the only on who is sick of, day after day, having guilt for global warming laid on with a trowel. I'm absolutely scunnered with it and they can all just b*gger off! When they've got actual facts rather than computer models I might start to care again. I wish they'd all just bore off.[/quote] If it's actual facts your looking for, you might find the film "An Inconvenient Truth" a way to get some really useful information about the serious issues with CO2 emissions that really cuts through the speculation with a very sharp knife! :-)
bert wrote:
I can't be the only on who is sick of, day after day, having guilt for global warming laid on with a trowel. I'm absolutely scunnered with it and they can all just b*gger off! When they've got actual facts rather than computer models I might start to care again. I wish they'd all just bore off.
If it's actual facts your looking for, you might find the film "An Inconvenient Truth" a way to get some really useful information about the serious issues with CO2 emissions that really cuts through the speculation with a very sharp knife! :-)
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